How to make an S197(05-09) Mustang do things... but better?

I bought an 08 Bullitt from a buddy before deployment for cheap, and figured it could be a fun track beater or daily driver. For the record, I've always said I'd never own a Mustang. 

Shortly after the purchase, I crewed a rally up in Copperhill TN and hit up the Tail on the way home. It went a little like this - oversteer, understeer, bottoming out, more oversteer, brake fade, pants shidded, first gear until the bottom, total regret of purchase. I felt like I was driving the car at solid 6/10, which was obviously a 10/10 mechanically.

Setup as purchased: Factory brakes, but with the chintzy drilled/slotted rotors. Some (now well worn) Nitto 555's. Hurst shifter to give the same feedback as shifting a tractor. Some empty yeungling cans in the spare tire well. Obnoxious stainless headerback and cats that rattle. Everything else is stock.

To tackle the horrific suspension, I threw on a takeoff Roush setup and front swaybar. Handling was better, but only slightly. Thankfully I got it for $150. Replaced the bump stops and the bottoming out improved dramatically.

I purged the brakes with whatever fluid he used, and put in some Motul 660. I don't trust the brakes, so until I can manage to find a way to upgrade these, I'm not pushing it.

I come to you lovely folks asking - what has worked for you, as far as suspension/braking? I'm not concerned with power (or lack thereof) and would love to do some light duty track time, but until I can find some used parts, it's limited to daily driving. 

Sounds like the perfect recipe has already been made. It's the CSM setup. 

https://www.stranoparts.com/searchbymodel.php?CategoryID=469&ModelID=59

It's gotten pretty good reviews from all that drove them. 

There are multiple threads on how to Upgrade the Brakes on the S197 for various level of $.

Google  is your friend!

Good Luck

In reply to YoutubeMechanic :

LMR Mustang has a front/rear brake upgrade kit with 14" rotors for $560.

With a stock motor they should be fine.

I too had no interest in buying a Mustang but after getting a deal on the Foxbody I understand why people by Mustangs. They are fairly crap in stock form but the aftermarket support is just mind blowing. You can buy parts stupid cheap to fix all the issues.

Get rid of the bargain bin drilled and slotted rotors.  Drilled rotors are horrible for track work, unless it's raining, or you plan on replacing them every weekend.  I'd bet the only time they felt good was within the first 1000 miles.  They're probably warped by now, and when you used them on the Tail, it might be the first time they got decently hot, so the pads have never properly bedded.  Replace the fluid too.

The S197 has a TON of potential with the right parts, and is incredibly easy to work on as well. The CSM setup has been shown to work excellent. But for another route, I can say that Steeda makes excellent parts for these cars along with Whiteline. My prior S197 had Steeda Springs and Dampers along with Whiteline sway bars and control arms. It handled absolutely excellent (especially on Tail of the Dragon), rode great, no bottoming out, just a great all around track/weekend car. 

Also for braking, the 11-14 4-Piston Brembos will literally directly bolt on to your car, as will the later S550 6-piston Brembos. The 6-piston setup just requires use of the 13-14 GT500 front rotors and brake lines. Like I said, tons of potential for not a ton of coin. 

The 6 Piston Brembos require a change in wheel's and tires diameters to clear them

FWIW

You haven't mentioned shocks and struts.  Bad dampers make any car feel awful and good ones are magic.

LukeGT said:

The S197 has a TON of potential with the right parts, and is incredibly easy to work on as well. The CSM setup has been shown to work excellent. But for another route, I can say that Steeda makes excellent parts for these cars along with Whiteline. My prior S197 had Steeda Springs and Dampers along with Whiteline sway bars and control arms. It handled absolutely excellent (especially on Tail of the Dragon), rode great, no bottoming out, just a great all around track/weekend car. 

Also for braking, the 11-14 4-Piston Brembos will literally directly bolt on to your car, as will the later S550 6-piston Brembos. The 6-piston setup just requires use of the 13-14 GT500 front rotors and brake lines. Like I said, tons of potential for not a ton of coin. 

I too had Steeda springs and Whiteline bars but I used Koni sports. Different car compared to the stock setup. 

RacingComputers said:

The 6 Piston Brembos require a change in wheel's and tires diameters to clear them

 

FWIW

True, you'll basically need 19s to clear the 6 pistons, some 18s will fit over the 4 Pistons. 

My Pony Package V6 I think came with normal GT brakes. The only thing I did for a track day was replace the pads with something like Hawks. It was fine all day. You shouldn't need massive brakes unless you are REALLY making some speed on a track. Try just race pads first. They have negated the need for brake upgrades on at least 3 cars I've tracked.

You can upgrade to 11.4" rotors without having to change wheels. Stock OEM rotors , good fluid and track type pads SHOULD get through a weekend with out major issue.  

There are multiple threads on here, s197 Fords, trackmustangs & etc. that speak to this upgrade process.

Take a look a h e CSM Mustand First Drive thread.  https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/love-at-first-drive-the-scca/273135/page1/ Go to the suggested site page for the vendor for CSM parts, let that be a guide as where to go, what to do

Good luck and enjoy

My S197 DD and track car.

This recipe works very well.  I did a lot of research, one brand favors higher spring rates and softer sway bars another uses softer springs and stiffer bars.  

Decide what you value more the track or touring aspect of the car and choose accordingly.  My next change will be to 275 rubber all the way around and a sway bar adjusment to match.

Here's my build thread.

Short version is that I did the 6-piston Brembo conversion, and yes, it required 19" wheels, but I was buying wheels anyway. For suspension I did Bilsteins with Ford Racing springs and Whiteline bars and panhard. I'm very happy with the ride/handling balance.

How old are the tires?

ow crazy do you want to go. BMR and a few others make full kits for the S197 that bolt right in.  Better uprights, adjustable everything and much stiffer then the factory bits. 

I thought the off the shelf lowering springs were too soft for sporty driving. I had both flavors of the Eibach lowering springs on my S197 and sway bars and Konis and it felt ok but still too soft and more body roll than I'd prefer. Most of the lowering springs use a similar enough spring rate that I wouldn't expect much of an observable difference. 
 

At the time, I was considering the ST or Tein coilovers and opted for shocks and springs for some reason  I regretted not doing the coilovers. The suspension really needs more roll control  

Lighweight wheels also make a nice difference  

The shifter on the 5 speed does indeed suck  

ymmv

I built a CSM car and I am happy with it. I do not think the 6 piston brembo package is better than the 4 piston for this platform unless you are forced induction. It's heavier, and more expensive. So are the wheels you would need to clear the brakes.  I also did a few track days with the stock brakes with hawk dtc60 pads. They were "ok" but that's what I have come to expect from hawk brakes. You can put together the 4 piston brembo brakes for a few hundred dollars if you do it piecemeal instead of buying the kit. Look around on youtube for more info.

I'd personally stay far away from BMR parts. I used to run a bunch of their stuff but it was a clunky, squeaky mess and the upper control arm wouldn't stay tight even with loctite. Replaced it all with Whiteline and couldn't possibly have been happier, vastly superior equipment in my experience. 

In reply to amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) :

Mine came with Eibach lowering springs, first think I did was ditch them.  Super low and soft, great for dragging headers and that's about it.

What I learned is all the parts need to work together, mix and match can cause problems due to different philosophy's by each mfg.  Not that it can't work but there is the risk of trial and error.

Make sure you are clear on what compromises you are able to tolerate in regard to NVH.

There's always the Ford Performance handling kit for these cars. I seriously considered it, but I really wanted Bilsteins, and I don't regret that decision.

As for the brakes, I was able to do the mix-and-match for the 6-piston Brembos, too. I followed this guide and spent $883 all in for rotors, calipers, pads, etc.

Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:

There's always the Ford Performance handling kit for these cars. I seriously considered it, but I really wanted Bilsteins, and I don't regret that decision.

The Ford Performance suspension uses / reboxes aftermarket springs. I forget which ones but I think it was Eibach. Found that on one of the Mustang forums and Strano confirmed when I talked to him. Similar deal with the struts and shocks. 

FWIW  The 6 piston Upgrade that Tom S mentioned above, is the best bang for the buck for the S197 Chassis upgrades.

Make it stop first, then add your suspension "bit and bobs" as desired.

Good Luck