I love shopping for Carreras so I'll happily start looking on your behalf. I'm up in Gainesville, so not too far away!
I love shopping for Carreras so I'll happily start looking on your behalf. I'm up in Gainesville, so not too far away!
I own a carbon copy of the car you posted. Triple black base Carerra convertible 6spd. Only difference is that mine is a 2000 with 41k miles. We absolutely love it. It's stunningly beautiful, makes noises only a Porsche can make and just has that "feel". It's fast, but not melt your face fast. I really enjoy driving it. I can certainly feel the age of the design...after all it's now 23 years since they first came out. Beyond that, it's awesome. I say go for it!!!!
In reply to Slippery :
Yes!!! I'll have rickie meet us. I've been jealous of your car postings while I've been gone.
The early 997 05-08 have a much improved ims. They go for a lot less than the later cars but don't really seem to have an issues if maintained. That would be my vote.
It's not only the IMS that has a potential for wallet destruction on these cars. The IMS issues are the most well known, but even simple things like changing the oil at the factory intervals can have interesting consequences down the road.
I did like my 996 cab, but the bonus was that my wife could also drive it as it was a Tiptronic. But in the end I'm more of an aircooled 911 guy, so when mine got totalled I didn't replace it with another one.
My ownership log on this forum: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/build-projects-and-project-cars/daily-driving-a-cheap-porsche-911-996-what-could-p/92344/page1/
Late to the conversation but I'll put in another vote for the boxster and cayman. We started looking for a 996 cab for my wife a few years ago and quickly shifted focus to a boxster for all of the above reasons plus the fact that the 996 cabrio top mechanism is orders of magnitude more expensive to deal with.
We found a 986S with 45k miles and priced reflecting the clutch it needed, for at least 8k less than an equivalent 996. 5 years and 40k miles later she still loves driving it to her elementary schoolteacher job every day that it's not snowing.
I've had a 993 since before they were stupid money but if I had to replace it I'd be looking at 2009+ caymans (caymen?).
All of the choices are good and you can drive them daily knowing you're responsibly enjoying a positive turn in life.
Welcome back to S FL ! If you might be interested in an old air cooled that needs a bit of love I could be persuaded to sell mine. I've got waaay too many projects in my life and although I've been slowly selling down I still have too many cars. I've got two red convertibles with black interiors & tops, and certainly don't need both (or either actually) since I've also got other cars I don't use gathering dust.
The verts are a '67 RS SS Camaro I'm reassembling and an '86 Carrera ROW widebody 3.2 with leather, manual, & AC. I figured I'd sell the '67 after driving a bit then paint the Carrera and put it back on the road but the reality is slowly declining health issues prevent me from leaving home more than once or twice a week for food, bank, HD, errands so I really don't drive anything much at all anymore, haven't even been up to Dave's in a couple years now. A tank of fuel in the dually lasts me a year and has been the only thing driven for several years. If I'd known you were in Delray you could have stopped by.
Anyway, here's an old pic of the Porsche before I parked it. Rust free car from CA I used to drive regularly if it wasn't going to rain. Ran fine when when parked over 10 years ago. Would need oil change, battery, tires, and other rubber stuff like belts etc. that dry from age and a paint job. A little over 100,000 miles IIRC.
[URL=https://app.photobucket.com/u/NOTATA/a/3282331e-e8b0-46b0-a583-3aa64ad91fd5/p/08559ff9-8073-4541-b7a5-af2e397169cc]
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I did a deep dive on the 996/997 4 years ago when I cross shopped them against a NA1 NSX for daily driving purposes. I went with the NSX because:
-The M96/97 is both horribly unreliable and horribly expensive. It's not just the IMS-look for cylinder scoring, d-chunks, RMS leaks and issues with the AOS. All of these things can result in a 10-15k DIY rebuild or a 20k short block that you still have to install yourself.
-The issues with these cars mean that the owners all have the automotive version of stockholm syndrome. Nobody wants to admit that they overpaid for a giant POS and are secretly afraid of the day they see oil specks on their tailpipe. The online community is frankly toxic. I was pretty unimpressed with the meatspace community as well, but didn't spend as much time with them.
-The 996 interiors were pretty poor and the ergonomics not great. This may depend on seat type and coupe vs. convertible. the 997 was much better interior wise.
Having said that, they are unique cars because of their looks, performance and 2+2 seating. Now that I have a son I'm looking at the 996 again, and cross shopping it with the Integra type R and the BMW e46 m3. If you buy one, keep in mind that if you keep it long enough it's gonna rip your heart out and set your wallet on fire at some point.
Personal taste and all that, but honestly the interior is one of the bigger things for me. The 986/996 just is not good in design, quality, or ergonomics. The 997 and newer cars were built around actually fitting an adult sized human in them and feel like an actual car, not a pile of cheap plastics. Honestly I didn't mind the interior in my 986 that much (other than that I was basically at eye level with the windshield frame) but that was in a $5k beater. I can't imagine paying $25k+ for a 996 with 98% the same interior. And unlike the questionable exterior styling, you do have to look at it while you're driving. But if you can manage to not be bothered by any of that and are short enough to fit comfortably, then it's probably a decent deal.
CrustyRedXpress said:-The M96/97 is both horribly unreliable and horribly expensive. It's not just the IMS-look for cylinder scoring, d-chunks, RMS leaks and issues with the AOS. All of these things can result in a 10-15k DIY rebuild or a 20k short block that you still have to install yourself.
To save people from digging through the 17 pages of my thread I linked to, mine had about 110k miles on it when we noticed that there was some noise from the hydraulic chain tensioners. Stripping down the engine after just changing the tensioners did reveal that the intermediate shaft itself was worn, and all tensioner pads were either disintegrating or severly worn. No sign of abuse of the engine, the engine builder's assessment was "someone changed oil at the factory intervals".
Remedy required to strip the engine down to the crank cradle, which was a huge labour bill compared to the parts bill.
Although I think the "kabooms" on the aircooled engines are even more expensive.
In reply to dps214 :
As a counterpoint, literally every part in the 986/996 interior is customizable from the factory. Don't like the leatherette seats? Find a car with real leather or quilted leather. Seats uncomfortable? Get Sport Seats. Don't like the steering wheel? They also come in leather, wood, aluminum, and carbon fiber. Think the center console is lame? Get a painted one. Leather-wrapped dashboard, alcantara headliners, real wood trim, it was all available. Don't judge the whole line up based on the base interior.
That said, the 997 interior was even more highly optioned including, I kid you not, leather-wrapped A/C vents (like each individual slat). The 987/997 do have an objectively terribly aging steering wheel as the airbags are all starting to show the break line, which is not a problem on the 986/996.
Example of a full leather 996 interior with a ton of aluminum options (steering wheel, A/C vents, parking brake, center console):
Cinnamon Brown color with the aluminum options:
Here's a rare carbon fiber center console and steering wheel:
Here's one of the many different kinds of real wood you could get:
Darker wood:
Painted console:
Sport seats:
Stuffed leather:
Not to mention you can buy (and even have the dealer install) the most modern PCM/NAV in a 986/996!
I am sure you also noticed all the colors. Like Nephrite:
Boxster Red:
And of course, my favorite, Metropol Blue:
In reply to Javelin :
Tell me more about this updated PCM.
In reply to NOT A TA :
So sorry to hear about your health issues! I can also understand the projects. Thankfully my F100 is very close but it's also in Tennessee at the moment. I think you're better off selling that Pcar to someone who really wants an air cooled car given the market- although that's incredibly kind for you to offer- that's a beautiful car.
In reply to John Welsh :
The perception piece is a very good point. I've owned 50+ cars, including a few true exotics. The one car that got the most attention and "you must be rich" comments was a first gen Boxster S that was over a decade old at the time I owned it. I think the red interior probably didn't help folks' perception of it, but it was definitely weird knowing that I paid half of a brand new Civic for it and people thought I was a trust fund baby.
grover said:In reply to Javelin :
Tell me more about this updated PCM.
In reply to Javelin :
Thanks bud.
In reply to grover :
You're welcome! Always happy to help people buy Porsches! 
In reply to Javelin :
that website is dangerous for any owner! It seems trivial, but factory support for something like an infotainment upgrade to apple car play is huge to me.
Others have mentioned the dangers of the motor going kaput and other things. At this point, I'm ok with that. I realize a 911 is a sports car and I don't expect it to be treated like a camry. Heck, I've had my share of strange and interesting car decisions. I had a Classic Range Rover with a 4.2 swap. I've owned a C5 A6 with the rather notorious 3.0 slow. I've had a 79 corvette earlier in life and we suffered through owning an oldmosbile alero that my FIL bought for my wife, and then transferred the payments to us, before we were married. The bore scoring is not a fun thought, and does seem to be likely a result of fuel wash- so that one is probably the most annoying. I am kindof interested in the thought of getting a 996 or early 997 on the lift and just dropping the engine out the bottom. We've been drag racers in my family for many years and I much prefer working on things when they are outside the chassis.
Thank you for all the help- I have located a 997.1 here in town, even though it's a trip I might go test it out. I do much prefer their looks, and the creature comforts. At some point it all gets a little TOO comfortable but those are generally out of my price range anyway.
I have also considered getting an aircooled out on the road. I'm just a little afraid I'd fall in love and the prices aren't coming back to earth any time soon.
Not a TA, I'm happy to help you get your's back on the road if you want a fellow wrencher to come down sometime!
A buddy of mine bought a 996 cab a few years ago. He promptly spent thousands of dollars and several months of frustration just to get the top to work. Then the AOS. Then bore scoring. By the end of it could have been in a pretty nice 997.2 for the same money. And yes, those motors are far superior.
Like Javelin said, Porsches are highly customizable, with interiors that range from low rent to insanely nice. The "alphabet soup" of IMS/RMS/Bore scoring is a thing but for a street driven car, not all that prevalent.
I went with a turbo, so my motor doesn't have any of those issues. The turbo interiors automatically come with more leather than "normal" and I really like the interior a lot. I haven't found it to have any ergonomic issues and I usually have issues fitting in cars because I'm all torso. The 996 is a great car, but as with any old German car, you're buying the seller more than the car.
That means you need to buy from an enthusiast who's maintained the car and has the records to prove it.
In reply to docwyte :
Is rennlist the suggested place to find such a car or is there somewhere else I should look?
grover said:In reply to Javelin :
Tell me more about this updated PCM.
Send me a PM , I may be able to help you too.
*Disclaimer*
I work at Porsche dealer.
From what I've seen, the more "basic" interiors hold up better that the wood/carbon fancy stuff. Using the base parts in the right color can be a less expensive repair than wood etc.
In reply to Gearheadotaku (Forum Supporter) :
I'll reach out once I have something to actually put it in. Thanks!
Yes there are many ways an M96 engine can fail. The smaller bores of the Boxster engines 2.7 and 3.2L are less prone to the D chunk and bore scoring (but it's still possible). The larger bore engines have more problems. Larger bores have more piston rock. Piston rock is a fact of life with internal combustion engines. Having owned a lot of different cars, one of the problems I see is inherent to the flat engine architecture. Oil drain back to the sump in a wet system is compromised in a flat engine. That's a fact because of the way gravity works. Inline and V engines have a big advantage here. This is one of the reasons, the bore scoring, low oil pressure in high g turns, etc. will always plague the M96/7 and probably newer Porsche engines.
Shortblocks are not 15-20k though. New shortblocks from Porsche with the improved larger IMS bearing are $7k last time I looked. You will need another 3k to make sure you go back with new timing components, new injectors, new AOS, and new water pump etc. For $10k, and lots of labor you could do a budget rebuild of one of these engines. LN engineering used to sell longblocks for around $15k rebuilt. Raby is going to cost you $20k to sky is the limit, but it's a complete concierge rebuild of your engine to your specs.
I have a loved my 996, but it was just too expensive. With all of the cost of an M96 rebuild, I was never going to abuse it like I do my other fun cars. I bounce everything else off the rev limiter knowing I can rebuild all 4 engines in my hobby cars for the price of one M96 and have money left over. The LT1 (96 Camaro), EJ251 (Subaru), Boxster M96 (can do a used one cheap for a 3.2), and 4AGE (MR2) can all be rebuilt for less than I had in the 996.
Sometimes I think I should upgrade my Boxster and do lots of things to it. Often I think I should just sell it and get an NB Miata so I can do silly things to it for a lot less. If someone offered me a clean NB in a color and spec I liked for my Boxster S, I'd consider a straight up trade. If they wanted all the parts I have amassed, I'd likely need an NB with a hardtop and low miles or a some cash. I have a full Porsche factory body kit for the Boxster, a 2nd set of wheels (Apex) and a lot of other things.
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