So a friend of mine has commissioned me to engine swap an ra65 celica hatchback he just picked up. We've gone back and forth a few times trying to pick an engine to use. The three biggest qualifications are cost and cool with functional trailing behind. As in, cheaper the better but he'll go with a bit more expensive if it's never been done or 'quirky cool'. That being said, a john deere tractor engine hasn't been done before(that I know of) but I can't imagine that would drive well as an actual car.
Straight away we chose 1uz v8 because they're cheap and you can get adapters to the current w58 transmission and not mess with drivelines and such. That means about as cheap as possible along with being a straight forward swap. 2jz isn't a great option because he's looking for closer to 300hp and the turbo version are ridiculously priced. Other ideas we've mulled over have been;
Honda J35; cool but not clear on transmission options
Volvo v8; definitely cool and surprisingly cheap but would need a cd009 and probably custom flywheel. And then ECU, megasquirt?
Atlas i6; I'm not even sure if this has a low enough height to fit. Again, transmission choices? Ar5? Balloons the cost but that's almost a toyota r154. Could that be adapted easier?
LFX v6; Price. I don't think I can get him to spend more than 1k-1500 and that would be for a perfect example with accessories. I think the LFX is out of budget.
Most of these options have an uncertainty about pairing together than makes the purchase a crapshoot.
Oh and did I mention when I finish the car I have to drive from Washington to Arkansas to meet him?
1uz is the easy button if the goal is to remain all Yota. The Aussies smash them into everything.
Gm3900. Trans is the t5 out of a 4th gen camaro v6. Bolts right up. Flywheel and clutch from a 4 banger s10 or cavalier.
240 hp and tq put of the box. Responds well to porting, turbos, and they make cams for them too.
It's a bit dated and not a lot of power per displacement, but they are bullet proof.
Ecu is a gm ecu tuned with stock harness.
Cheap and plentiful. Weight for the package isn't bad either.
wvumtnbkr said:
Gm3900. Trans is the t5 out of a 4th gen camaro v6. Bolts right up. Flywheel and clutch from a 4 banger s10 or cavalier.
240 hp and tq put of the box. Responds well to porting, turbos, and they make cams for them too.
It's a bit dated and not a lot of power per displacement, but they are bullet proof.
Ecu is a gm ecu tuned with stock harness.
Cheap and plentiful. Weight for the package isn't bad either.
That's not a bad idea. We're both big GM fans. Although with the cost of buying another transmission and custom driveshaft, the horsepower output is lower than desired. What's the torque on something like that?
In reply to Appleseed :
I think that's what we'll end up with but I was really hoping to do something a bit different.
was hoping you wanted random suggestions. came here to suggest 13B F250.
iansane said:
wvumtnbkr said:
Gm3900. Trans is the t5 out of a 4th gen camaro v6. Bolts right up. Flywheel and clutch from a 4 banger s10 or cavalier.
240 hp and tq put of the box. Responds well to porting, turbos, and they make cams for them too.
It's a bit dated and not a lot of power per displacement, but they are bullet proof.
Ecu is a gm ecu tuned with stock harness.
Cheap and plentiful. Weight for the package isn't bad either.
That's not a bad idea. We're both big GM fans. Although with the cost of buying another transmission and custom driveshaft, the horsepower output is lower than desired. What's the torque on something like that?
In reply to Appleseed :
I think that's what we'll end up with but I was really hoping to do something a bit different.
240 torque.
Driveshaft is easy. Get the correct rear flange, and camaro driveshaft. Cut weld or have a shop do it. It's like 250$ to get one made.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:
was hoping you wanted random suggestions. came here to suggest 13B F250.
It probably says something unflattering about my personality that I'd rather have a Powerstroke RX7
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
Oh I realize it's easy. I'll shoot him the suggestion. It's definitely cheaper than I figured. car-part is showing engines less than 500 and transmission around the same. Just seems to lack...panache. I guess that's what turbos are for, right?
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:
was hoping you wanted random suggestions. came here to suggest 13B F250.
With infinite funds you'd better believe I'd try some E36 M3 like this.
NOHOME
MegaDork
6/9/21 5:13 p.m.
So that people like me who have no clue what ra65 Celica might be, see below.
The pic also included the correct answer. The swap has been done and DEVELOPED to some degree. Toyota engine in a Toyota has value to the next buyer. Being able to go on line and google similar swaps is as close as your buddy is going to have to an owners/shop manual for the car. Dont make his life difficult by building a one-of-one vehicle.
Your buddy is tight with $$$ and wants you to do the work so that you can be responsible for the results; how often to you want to drive to his house to fix some silly swap issue that he was too frugal to do right the first time? Thing with doing work for $$$ is that you are on the hook for the results and expectations.
What is the alphabet soup that adds up to 2.7l Tacoma engine?
Not sure about that chassis, but apparently it bolts right in place of a 22RE in a newer one. Power steering hose even worked...
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
2rz or something.
I vote a Lexus v8 UZ engine.
I'm all for swapping in a Kubota V2203
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
2TR-Fe
I've done the 1uz swap into That same chassis. Don't do it. It's great power, but the big hurdles are- the drivers side header will ALWAYS require removing the steering linkage to remove and install, and there's barely any room to make the header better flowing.
The starter is ####ing buried. If it needs replaced, plan on about $400 in gaskets. And if you are changing the starter- buy a legit toyota denso unit ($$$). No need to do it twice in a lifetime.
If you plan on keeping the factory Ecu, there is not enough info to get you 100% wired up. There's a fellow on lextreme forums named Nigel and another named Smithers. They will help you greatly for wiring, but they are rarely on that forum anymore since they have moved on.
If you go this route, the easy button is Xcessive manufacturing in Tigard, Oregon for the bellhousing swap. You can also shave a ton of money off by using a 5sfe flywheel altered by xcessive. Then use an uprated 22re clutch kit.
The front sway can be from an ae86 but you'll need super long end links. Or go nascar front bar.
I'm here to help. My ra64 ended up being less than the sum of its parts. In the end, I basically built a lighter version of a Fox body Mustang.
BMW V8 and manual transmission (1997 or later M62 + BMW 5 or 6-speed from similar gen sedan. Done.)
Mazda KL-series V6? KL-ZE is only 217bhp, but revs to the moon and makes lovely noises. I think they tend to use the Miata or RX-7 transmissions.
I do like the modern GM V6 swap using the LSx architecture. 285bhp out of the box and again, a lovely noise. Use the Camaro transmission and have a new driveshaft made.
If you have an R-154 (or put one in) then the options are more open as there are several bellhousings available to adapt a large number of engine families.
Just some thoughts.
LS all the cars !!! Well, somebody had to say it. Get an aluminum block version.
Super cheap and different and effective don't usually live in the same neighborhood. Unless your buddy is paying for your time to engineer a custom implementation and is willing to give you a long enough timeframe to debug it,, take the easy route.
NOHOME
MegaDork
6/9/21 7:48 p.m.
Vajingo said:
I've done the 1uz swap into That same chassis. Don't do it. It's great power, but the big hurdles are- the drivers side header will ALWAYS require removing the steering linkage to remove and install, and there's barely any room to make the header better flowing.
The starter is ####ing buried. If it needs replaced, plan on about $400 in gaskets. And if you are changing the starter- buy a legit toyota denso unit ($$$). No need to do it twice in a lifetime.
If you plan on keeping the factory Ecu, there is not enough info to get you 100% wired up. There's a fellow on lextreme forums named Nigel and another named Smithers. They will help you greatly for wiring, but they are rarely on that forum anymore since they have moved on.
If you go this route, the easy button is Xcessive manufacturing in Tigard, Oregon for the bellhousing swap. You can also shave a ton of money off by using a 5sfe flywheel altered by xcessive. Then use an uprated 22re clutch kit.
The front sway can be from an ae86 but you'll need super long end links. Or go nascar front bar.
I'm here to help. My ra64 ended up being less than the sum of its parts. In the end, I basically built a lighter version of a Fox body Mustang.
While the above might seem daunting and an argument against the 1uz swap, keep in mind that all of the other options will also have surprises and compromises in store. The thing is that with any swap other than the 1uz you get to discover them, and try to resolve them, on your own. If possible.
Edit: I am also not of the knee-jerk "all cars must have a manual gearbox" frame of mind. My thoughts are that it would make a nicer car to drive and service if the original auto box were used instead to the chimera of a manual conversion that was never meant to be.
If you want to keep it in the Toyota family, but much more modern, I would look into following our MR2 friend here down the 2AR path: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-bpPF3e9zw. You won't make 300HP NA with junkyard parts, but it's really impressive for what it is. I'm not well-versed enough in Toyotas to know what transmission you would use, though.
I can tell you that the Atlas I6 is way too tall to fit under the hood.
67LS1
New Reader
6/9/21 8:31 p.m.
I don't think the LFX V6 is expensive to buy. I bought my 500 mile engine/trans/harness/ECM combo for $2k and I've seen others a lot cheaper with more miles.
But it's not a small engine. It's wide and tall. That might be a issue in the Celica.
NOHOME said:
Vajingo said:
I've done the 1uz swap into That same chassis. Don't do it. It's great power, but the big hurdles are- the drivers side header will ALWAYS require removing the steering linkage to remove and install, and there's barely any room to make the header better flowing.
The starter is ####ing buried. If it needs replaced, plan on about $400 in gaskets. And if you are changing the starter- buy a legit toyota denso unit ($$$). No need to do it twice in a lifetime.
If you plan on keeping the factory Ecu, there is not enough info to get you 100% wired up. There's a fellow on lextreme forums named Nigel and another named Smithers. They will help you greatly for wiring, but they are rarely on that forum anymore since they have moved on.
If you go this route, the easy button is Xcessive manufacturing in Tigard, Oregon for the bellhousing swap. You can also shave a ton of money off by using a 5sfe flywheel altered by xcessive. Then use an uprated 22re clutch kit.
The front sway can be from an ae86 but you'll need super long end links. Or go nascar front bar.
I'm here to help. My ra64 ended up being less than the sum of its parts. In the end, I basically built a lighter version of a Fox body Mustang.
While the above might seem daunting and an argument against the 1uz swap, keep in mind that all of the other options will also have surprises and compromises in store. The thing is that with any swap other than the 1uz you get to discover them, and try to resolve them, on your own. If possible.
Edit: I am also not of the knee-jerk "all cars must have a manual gearbox" frame of mind. My thoughts are that it would make a nicer car to drive and service if the original auto box were used instead to the chimera of a manual conversion that was never meant to be.
And this is true. I know I sounded butt hurt about my swap. It was fast, cheap, and reliable (except the starter issue). How often do you get all three of those?
I did a write up on the swap over on celica GTS.com
I'll second the 2.7 Tacoma engine. These things need a big 4. Any more cylinders, and you're just trying to fake a Supra.
And, as the money becomes available you can put on a turbo or supercharger and be on the way to a group B replica.
In reply to iansane :
I have no helpful suggestions, but the John Deere engines have been done in cars/pickups along the way... you probably not ever in a celica! I imagine your quite right there.
Not that I'd ever recommend it ...
(I had a square body Chevy with a diesel out of a combine, for a bit. Not a Deere, but...)
Anyway, carry on, and will be interested in see what y'all go with.
I can't remember what those had for engines originally but I'm wondering if building a boosted version of the original engine with a good EFI setup might be the best option.
