I need some auto-x advice.

Would you consider returning it to Stock? I don't think that would be a bad place for it. A little work and I bet it could run well.

I believe that would be FSP if you went Street Prepared. That might be a thought.

nicksta43 wrote: Somehow I think ya'll fail to realize just how terrible this thing handles.

Well, having never driven it, sure. I have no idea how badly the cut springs are affecting the handling, if at all. Again, just keep at it. I can assure you that my first time out in my Caprice was eye opening.

The very first thing you have to do is figure out what class you want to build this car to...

Then you can decided what modifications you need to do.. Since this is a daily driver start by modifying whats broken/worn out..

If your tires are still good for DDing, but your suspension is shot.. Your decision is simple.. fix the broken suspension.. fix it to the limits you can A) afford, B) what the class rules will allow...

Making the car faster with 1 mod, wont happen over night... Its going to take years if you are on a tight budget.. I have been building my SMF 323 for almost 3 years now.. I am in the same boat.. Very little budget, and the car is my daily driver...

At the end of last year was the first time I started seeing its true potential but its still not truly competitive..

This video shows how these things rolled around when new. I'm not far from that. I think a bigger problem is my bump stops disintegrated. I believe that's why my other E21 handled so much better than this one does. BTW it was on cut springs too and had 200k MORE miles than this one does on the stock struts. Gutted interior and everything just like this one but it handled way more gooder.

It's been mentioned many times already, but add another to the suspension suggestion pile.

Personally, I wouldn't waste expensive r-compounds on an underdeveloped car with suspension rot. Also, I wouldn't buy-in halfway if you really decide to go with one of the prepared classes. For instance, I'm not sure what Eibach springs you mentioned, but something progressive like the Prokit or even Sportlines aren't going to be optimal in FP or EP. I'd just save up some more money for GC sleeves. If you can't afford those right now, just focus on dampers, bushings, balljoints, and tie-rod ends. Hell, that wouldn't be a bad idea even for the street tire classes either.

yeah, suspension first ... as you can afford ... make sure all the worn parts are replaced then start with the more exotic upgrades ( ball joints, tie-rod ends, then bushings .... etc)

when you can afford move on to springs/shocks, then move up to wheels that you can get tires for ( in the meantime you could try these (http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?dsco=135&sowigan=&Breite=205&Quer=60&Felge=13&Speed=&kategorie=6&LoadRange=&Marke=&ranzahl=4&suchen=View+tires)

and as far as screwing up out on course Sun .. remember that was a very cone intensive course ( I DNF'ed once + center punched a cone .... neither of which do I usually do )

so IMO just work on the car when you can ... get yourself a plan and try to stick to it .... talk to JB, Kristo, any of the others that have done quality builds and see if you can make a plan (that'll probably span a few yrs) using their input and just keep plugging away .... when I started I was usually able to do one or two things each yr

In reply to nicksta43:

You've posted some rather contradictory statements in this thread...

You say you have 10 years of auto-x experience but complain you don't want to read the rule book to figure what class your car is in or how to go about prepping it. I'm sorry, but these are auto-x noob comments.

You're looking at almost $600 on a set of R-comps (plus installation?) that might last you a season vs. $900 or so for a set of RS3's on 15x8 TRM C1's that would probably last a couple of seasons.

You want to buy stickier tires, but admit the suspension is crap? I agree with others who posted you need to start with a solid baseline before throwing upgrades at the car.

To me it sounds like you had a bad day of racing and are looking for a quick-fix. This is usually a path to mis-spent money, disappointment and further frustration. Take a breath, step back for a few days and look at this again with a clear head.

Ian F wrote: To me it sounds like you had a bad day of racing and are looking for a quick-fix. This is usually a path to mis-spent money, disappointment and further frustration. Take a breath, step back for a few days and look at this again with a clear head.

yeah, keep in mind what I said about how tough the course was .... look at how many DNF's people like Lin had ... and she wasn't the only one .. fun course but it got very tricky at a couple of places

I've also been in your position before and my suggestions for mods are (ignoring any classing issues)

1. Get new wheels that give you a decent tire selection. On 13s you are in the deepest pit of tire selection hell. 15s would put you in the penthouse of tire selection hell. Then put decent tires on them, Z1SS or Z2 are about as aggressive as you can get before you have to start worrying about heat cycling.

2. Get proper coilovers (as in fully threaded with independent height adjustment) and do your best to not cheap out. This is a really important mod. I got D2/Ksports and now I'm suffering with cracked camber plates. They've worked well, maybe as well as the more expensive options, but they're costing me money having to replace components with ones that will stand up to street use. Maybe check ISC, they're a GRM advertiser.

3. Once you've got good wheels and suspension THEN work on power, it's very hard to get any affordable improvements in the power department. BTW I suggest you change that K&N washable filter for an AEM dryflow w/ pre-filter bag. I did a lot of research on this when designing a CAI for my car, these aftermarket filters are a bit too permissive and the oil the K&Ns require is not only a maintenance PITA but can cause trouble with EFI'd cars. The AEM dryflows you can basically wash with dish soap (if you can't get their cleaning solution), air dry and slap on.

4. Upgrading brakes for AutoX is generally a waste. Be careful about this. You'll find that as you improve your suspension you use the brakes less and less.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

Unless he has asshat course designers putting a stop box for the finish in........bmwcca locally does that crap.

nicksta43 wrote: In reply to wlkelley3: The car is the problem not the driver. I'm not new to this just never really prepped a car for a class. 205/60/13 tire size. on tire rack I have a choice of R6, RA1 or R888

I was just giving standard reply that always pops up.
Besides, even experts can always improve.

Figured that car had 14" which there is a DII & A6 in that. Yeah, 13" limited selection. Have that issue with my Opel GT w/factory 13". Even less choice for my MK I Midget. Rear fender arch limit width.

Please do not take this as a comment of, "it's you"...

Training: Autocrossing with Dick Turner - in 11 parts, video

In my really active auto-x days, I would review these video before every season. The info is exceptional. You are never too good for a refresher.

yamaha wrote: In reply to GameboyRMH: Unless he has asshat course designers putting a stop box for the finish in........bmwcca locally does that crap.

Even if you have a stop box finish, crappy brakes won't cost you much. They'll probably be just warmed up at the end of a run and you can give them one good mash before they start to get too hot. Whenever I did a course with a stop box I'd always get the most "whoas" from the crowd and I have non-vented discs in the front and drums in the back. Remember, whenever you can lock up the wheels you've got enough braking force.

In reply to GameboyRMH:

Thats why the ti has e46 330zhp brakes on the front...because the stock ones couldn't even do that in the rain.

I don't have any autoX experience, but I would get an adjustable suspension and wait for the tires to wear down or better yet, sell them.

Last spring, my mom was looking to get a second set of wheels for her minivan and mount the snow tires on the OE wheels. I advised her to step up to 18" with ultra-high perormance summer tires (they were actually $5 cheaper than the OE tires), primarily to improve braking distances. They really made the steering come alive and quelled nearly all under steer, but the car felt "unsettled" at the limit. It was clear that the suspension just wasn't designed for that last 10th. of performance. The Kumho KR21s are still probably a massive upgrade over what came as OE on your car came with back in the day and the suspension wasn't designed to deal with the cornering forces that come from extreme performance summer tires 30 years ago when it was new, and certainly not after 30 years of wear. To finish the story on the minivan, I am certain that they saved me from rear-ending someone, so they were definitely worth it.

Overall, upgrading the tires will likely improve your times more than the suspension upgrade, but I don't think the car is going to be very composed doing so. You could also try adding camber bolts (or plates) and playing around with the tire pressure if you want to mitigate under steer but don't need more grip.

@JohnRW1621: Dick Turner was way ahead of his time with his driving techniques. Even 20+ years later, many of those techniques are considered "modern". I've found trackpedia.com to be helpful as well.

Ian F wrote: In reply to nicksta43: You've posted some rather contradictory statements in this thread...

Yes I have. I have been attending auto-x for over ten years. However in those ten years I have never had a car particularly suited to auto-x let alone prepped for any class. Hell last night is the first time I've ever even looked at the rulebook. I have only been out to have fun and that I have. Something hit me yesterday though and now I want more out of it, and just showing up driving around and going home sunburned and smiling isn't cutting it anymore.

I would like to thank everyone who responded to this thread. And Yea, I guess it was a lot of being frustrated about having a poor result.

Also my "it's not the driver it's the car" comment was mostly in jest and partially trolling. I figure on my best day I would be about average. But the car does suck.

And to that end, I had an epiphany this morning.

Now that we have local events I have been wanting to get a car for rallycross. I've been trying to find something small with RWD and an IRS with a manual. Low and behold I looked down and was driving the perfect rallycross car.

So instead of trying to force this car into being an uncompetitive autocross car. I'm changing focus with it and will be rallycrossing it.

Now I can study the different classes for autocross and select a car more suitable for the job. It may be simpler to get something in a stock class rather than worry about prepping for a class where a lot of mods are allowed.

Found some pitchers online

At least it looks good

nicksta43 wrote: Also my "it's not the driver it's the car" comment was mostly in jest and partially trolling. I figure on my best day I would be about average. But the car does suck.

I know how you feel there. I've run 4 different cars during my short autocross career - a Spit 6 (in SSM; horrific), my TDi wagon (HS slow, but consistent), a MINI Cooper 'vert (also in HS, but much faster w/ *specs), and my current E30 (under-prepped for STX, w/ 8specs, not fun). I had the most fun running the MINI in HS (first Novice, then HS street tire PAX). Of course, I also had my best results in the MINI. I wish I'd known how not-fun the E30 would be for autocross or I never would have bought it. I simply don't enjoy driving the car at all, which makes it hard to progress.

I am running a 1982 320i in H Stock in the Southern Pacific region of the SCCA, my car has the same profound body roll. After three years I still have people commending on how far the car leans over in the corners. The 1977 to 1979 cars have one front suspension, the 1980 to 1983 were upgraded. All of these use the front sway bar as a lower link to the control arms. the front cross member is different between the early and late cars. The control arms/ball joints are specific, early or late, cars. The vented front rotors are only on the early cars. The largest sway bars made for the car were 29 mm front and 19mm rear, you can still find them both new and used. Bilstein Sport struts with the springs , 450 front and 300 rear will help tame the "Roll". Does your car have a LSD? The rim offset on these cars is unique to the family of BMW's. The front outer tie rod will hit the inner wheel weight, the offset is ET12. The stock fenders will work with 6" wide rims; 13, 14 and 15's are again out there, you just have to find them. Just have fun with it, in EP the car only has to weigh 1990 pounds with a legal 2.0 motor. Or 1790 with the 1.8. Your choice.