In reply to Tom1200 :
67 now, need a new rhyme.
In reply to Tom1200 :
67 now, need a new rhyme.
frenchyd said:SV reX said:In reply to frenchyd :
So, they are free IF you give up 11 years worth of revenue stream, right?
On something with a 30 +year life span.
Yes I'd be willing to give up 7-11 years of income to gain 30+ years of free electricity. The big question is why wouldn't you?
I don't mean to be too macabre, but you've posted a lot about how you don't have too many years left.
Why are things with 10+ year break even points appealing to you? Why are you pinning your hopes on a Tesla Model 2 that won't exist for several more years instead of buying an inexpensive Chevy Bolt right now and actually enjoying it before it's too late? By your own admission, you probably don't have a ton of years left. Why are you spending your precious time waiting and hoping instead of doing and enjoying? If an EV is so appealing to you, then buy one now. Even if you have to pay ~$5k more than you might for a hypothetical Model 2 that extra time that you'd get to enjoy it has some value.
Or, if the Bolt is too pedestrian for you to keep up with your rich neighbors you could apply your EV budget to a used Tesla and get a Model S with ~ 200 miles of range and 75-125k miles right now. I see 140 of them for sale between $15k-25k. If they're as reliable and durable as you claim, then any of these should have more than enough life left for your uses for the rest of your days.
Toyman! said:In reply to frenchyd :
So waiting for the manufacturer to actually build the car you want should be added to your list.
I'm curious why you think your neighbor would let you cut down his trees so you could put in solar panels. If I was in his shoes that would be a hard no.
Steve_Jones said:In reply to Tom1200 :
67 now, need a new rhyme.
Page sixty seven,
This thread sure is hell
We're beating the horse now you know
Frenchy has taken it, as far as it can
I wish that he'd just let it go...
The trees are actually on my side of the property and if I wanted to be a jerk I'd just go ahead and cut them down. But relationships with neighbors are critical. He has an illegal spite fence an earlier jerk of a neighbor put up. The posts are rotting and it's falling down so maybe I'll get 2 birds with one stone.
But they overhang his house too. Providing shade. Plus a measure of privacy.
Lake property has narrow lots with ten foot set backs that because our houses were built before the rules were made. None of us actually conform to.. it's called pre-existing non conforming property. I'm about 2& 1/2' from my neighbor to the North and the neighbor to the south is less than 4 feet from my property line.
That's why building my house had to be done in stages. I technically remodeled it.
Why my house has a portico on the front. Etc.
Taking the trees out has to be done with a climber cutting branches down with lowering ropes attached.
STM317 said:frenchyd said:SV reX said:In reply to frenchyd :
So, they are free IF you give up 11 years worth of revenue stream, right?
On something with a 30 +year life span.
Yes I'd be willing to give up 7-11 years of income to gain 30+ years of free electricity. The big question is why wouldn't you?I don't mean to be too macabre, but you've posted a lot about how you don't have too many years left.
Why are things with 10+ year break even points appealing to you? Why are you pinning your hopes on a Tesla Model 2 that won't exist for several more years instead of buying an inexpensive Chevy Bolt right now and actually enjoying it before it's too late? By your own admission, you probably don't have a ton of years left. Why are you spending your precious time waiting and hoping instead of doing and enjoying? If an EV is so appealing to you, then buy one now. Even if you have to pay ~$5k more than you might for a hypothetical Model 2 that extra time that you'd get to enjoy it has some value.
Or, if the Bolt is too pedestrian for you to keep up with your rich neighbors you could apply your EV budget to a used Tesla and get a Model S with ~ 200 miles of range and 75-125k miles right now. I see 140 of them for sale between $15k-25k. If they're as reliable and durable as you claim, then any of these should have more than enough life left for your uses for the rest of your days.
There are a couple of assumptions that are just wrong. The trees are on my property. Please read the post above as to why I'm asking rather than being a jerk.
Second I'll never keep up with the guy 2 houses to the North. It seems like he shows up with a new different Ferrari every 4 months.
I'm perfectly content with my collection of vehicles. Wanting a cheap $25,000 Tesla isn't going to impress anyone but I think it will be the perfect car for me and if I get my full 15 years more or less it should serve me well.
I'm a patient man. It took me 20 years to get my building permit to build my house the way I wanted rather than the way a jerk at the city wanted me to.
Waiting a year for the car I want doesn't seem extraordinary to me. Besides that works perfectly with my construction and financial budget.
This is the last year of changing the house to my new wife's taste. New tile on the main floor guest bathroom. Loss of my pull chain toilet but I'm moving it down into my shop. Rather than pissing in the floor drain and pouring a gallon of water after it. Altering the upstairs sewing room to give her more cabinet space in exchange for the loss of a tiny 1/2 bath and closet.
New sink and counter plus new tile around the Upstairs Jacuzzi. Then she's happy
Yesterday browsing Kia's website I learned of something new :
kias new EV9. 7 passenger suv, 300 miles of range. Heat pump hvac to help the batteries in cold climates and 5k lb towing capacity. Of course, not eligible for any rebates because of some silly politicians but it looks like hy/Kia really have their E36 M3 together.
So here's the discussion I had with a colleague recently.
Them. You should get a rivian.
me: they are cool, but expensive and the back seat isn't wide enough.
them: but you'll love electric.
me: probably
them: so why not buy one
me: because I can buy three of the 2019 f150's I just bought for the price of an average Rivian. ( I bought an f150 for 30kish recently)
them: But the maint is cheaper
me: it is. But not 60k cheaper.
and that's it in a nutshell.
frenchyd said:STM317 said:frenchyd said:SV reX said:In reply to frenchyd :
So, they are free IF you give up 11 years worth of revenue stream, right?
On something with a 30 +year life span.
Yes I'd be willing to give up 7-11 years of income to gain 30+ years of free electricity. The big question is why wouldn't you?I don't mean to be too macabre, but you've posted a lot about how you don't have too many years left.
Why are things with 10+ year break even points appealing to you? Why are you pinning your hopes on a Tesla Model 2 that won't exist for several more years instead of buying an inexpensive Chevy Bolt right now and actually enjoying it before it's too late? By your own admission, you probably don't have a ton of years left. Why are you spending your precious time waiting and hoping instead of doing and enjoying? If an EV is so appealing to you, then buy one now. Even if you have to pay ~$5k more than you might for a hypothetical Model 2 that extra time that you'd get to enjoy it has some value.
Or, if the Bolt is too pedestrian for you to keep up with your rich neighbors you could apply your EV budget to a used Tesla and get a Model S with ~ 200 miles of range and 75-125k miles right now. I see 140 of them for sale between $15k-25k. If they're as reliable and durable as you claim, then any of these should have more than enough life left for your uses for the rest of your days.
I'm perfectly content with my collection of vehicles. Wanting a cheap $25,000 Tesla isn't going to impress anyone but I think it will be the perfect car for me and if I get my full 15 years more or less it should serve me well.
I'm a patient man. It took me 20 years to get my building permit to build my house the way I wanted rather than the way a jerk at the city wanted me to.
Waiting a year for the car I want doesn't seem extraordinary to me. Besides that works perfectly with my construction and financial budget.
My man, the Model 2 is not coming next year. There have been no spy shots of legitimate prototypes. It hasn't been revealed to the public, and it will very likely be two years or more after that before they're available for sale (based on Tesla's track record with Model 3 and Y which were the fastest from reveal to production). You say you want a $25k Tesla, and I linked to over 100 of them that you could have tomorrow instead of waiting and hoping for whatever may eventually come down the line.
You have no idea when it will exist, what it might be, how much range it might have, what it might cost, or if it would be available in the US or not. Why spend any precious time waiting for that when you can go out and have a new EV or used Tesla with known features and capabilities right now?
If you just want to talk about all of the latest EV scuttlebutt that's fine, but be honest about it and don't fabricate a bunch of stuff about buying something that doesn't exist. If you're really planning on taking action at some point, then why wait? Go do it now and get some actual enjoyment out of this stuff. Back up your endless claims with actions instead of just deflecting the convo to something entirely different.
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
When I built my house I looked to the future long beyond my life. In Europe it wasn't uncommon for timber frame homes to be over 500 years old.
Here in America the average home is 57 years old before it's either torn down or so extensively remodeled it it may as well be torn down. (information from Fine Home building.
Accordingly I built this place reusing as much from the old house as possible , buying local such as in picking my own hardwood Timbers from a local farmers woodlot, having a local sawmill turn logs into Timbers. Going up to the St Cloud quarry for stones. Recycling bricks from a local highway for driveway and walkways.
In addition I used modern SIP's & ICf's for insulation. Making my house super insulated. Extremely decay resistant.
As far as 10 year payback? I believe you fail to understand what Minnesota does. You get a complete set of solar panels installed on your roof with NO OUT OF POCKET COST as a result of that you get free electricity from the sun. And the panels ( and labor) is paid for by the excess electricity generated. ( typically 7-11 years). Once it's paid for I'll be paid for any excess electricity I generate. Modern quality panels have a 30 year+ life with a guaranteed rate of deterioration.
Caveats. First your house needs to qualify. ( hence, cut down the trees).
Second I'm responsible for any electricity I use beyond what I generate. So if November is really cloudy and I only generate enough to pay 3/4 of my electric bill I am billed for the other 1/4
It's actually a federal program administered by the state. What I fail to understand is why all states aren't offering it.
Well I can understand some states like Washington with surplus hydroelectric power probably still being paid for.
Other states with high cloud cover that don't make economic sense. A lot of the East coast is like that.
But why would a state like Kansas* with great sunlight want to ship money out of state to pay for the fuel to run bigger and bigger ( and costly ) electric power plants?
* I don't know if Kansas has a program or not.
Sort of in topic... thanks to our friends in the north that haven't heard of "firefighting " (it's a joke peeps) this is our skies the last few days:
the AQI of 255 right now is bad enough, but I wonder how much less light is filtering through to all the solar panels in the area?
I do find it funny in a macabre way that even if literally everyone here had electric cars and semis we'd still have the worst air quality in history lol.
Fueled by Caffeine said:So here's the discussion I had with a colleague recently.
Them. You should get a rivian.
me: they are cool, but expensive and the back seat isn't wide enough.
them: but you'll love electric.
me: probablythem: so why not buy one
me: because I can buy three of the 2019 f150's I just bought for the price of an average Rivian. ( I bought an f150 for 30kish recently)
them: But the maint is cheaper
me: it is. But not 60k cheaper.
and that's it in a nutshell.
This is where I am with my work vehicles. While an EV would be perfect 80% of the time, a used ICE truck + fuel + maintenance is a good bit cheaper than an electric truck.
I was super hopeful for the Lightning but the base truck isn't quite enough to get the job done without having a gas truck as a backup when the EV can't get it done and the 5 long-range versions near me start at $87k and go up to $101k.
frenchyd said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
As far as 10 year payback? I believe you fail to understand what Minnesota does. You get a complete set of solar panels installed on your roof with NO OUT OF POCKET COST as a result of that you get free electricity from the sun. And it's is paid for by the excess electricity generated. ( typically 7-11 years). Once it's paid for I'll be paid for any excess electricity I generate. Modern quality panels have a 30 year+ life with a guaranteed rate of deterioration.
Caveats. First your house needs to qualify. ( hence, cut down the trees).
SecondIt's actually a federal program administered by the state. What I fail to understand is why all states aren't offering it.
Well I can understand some states like Washington with surplus hydroelectric power probably still being paid for.
Other states with high cloud cover that don't make economic sense.
I'm also responsible for any month where there isn't enough sunlite to generate all my electrical needs. ( in other words if the sun only shines enough in November to cover 1/2 my electric bill I pay the other 1/2.
Luckily November tends to be a low electric bill month. But if Dec& Jan. Are also cloudy there I might have to come up with $20-30 or whatever. Basically the less electricity I use and the sunnier it is the sooner the debt is paid off.
Wait, how is there any debt to pay off if there's no out of pocket cost to you?
You talk about this a lot, and I've looked into it several times and I haven't been able to find anything that indicates there's any truth to your claims about this.
In reply to STM317 :
Some people fall for it.
In reply to STM317 :
Credit card purchases are free, right?
STM317 said:frenchyd said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
As far as 10 year payback? I believe you fail to understand what Minnesota does. You get a complete set of solar panels installed on your roof with NO OUT OF POCKET COST as a result of that you get free electricity from the sun. And it's is paid for by the excess electricity generated. ( typically 7-11 years). Once it's paid for I'll be paid for any excess electricity I generate. Modern quality panels have a 30 year+ life with a guaranteed rate of deterioration.
Caveats. First your house needs to qualify. ( hence, cut down the trees).
SecondIt's actually a federal program administered by the state. What I fail to understand is why all states aren't offering it.
Well I can understand some states like Washington with surplus hydroelectric power probably still being paid for.
Other states with high cloud cover that don't make economic sense.
I'm also responsible for any month where there isn't enough sunlite to generate all my electrical needs. ( in other words if the sun only shines enough in November to cover 1/2 my electric bill I pay the other 1/2.
Luckily November tends to be a low electric bill month. But if Dec& Jan. Are also cloudy there I might have to come up with $20-30 or whatever. Basically the less electricity I use and the sunnier it is the sooner the debt is paid off.
Wait, how is there any debt to pay off if there's no out of pocket cost to you?
You talk about this a lot, and I've looked into it several times and I haven't been able to find anything that indicates there's any truth to your claims about this.
It's because you're using normal math the rest of the world uses. You have to ignore that and use frenchy math. Trust me the numbers work then because they don't mean anything and are completely made up.
SV reX said:In reply to STM317 :
Credit card purchases are free, right?
Now if only I could get my solar panels to pay the minimum payment in that $50k in credit card debt for me
In reply to bobzilla :
I think the EV6 is one of the best looking cars for sale today. Possibly the best in the tall-sedan-hatchback-thing category.
I'm not sold on the Ev9, though I haven't seen it in person, it looks like a telluride doing military cosplay to me.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
I have looked very hard at buying an electric car numerous times. Come close. But the $$$ calculations just don't make sense yet compared to a conventional car or conventional hybrid, for me. Or if they do, the car isn't good enough (lookin at you, Ford Fusion Energi with no trunk).
STM317 said:frenchyd said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
As far as 10 year payback? I believe you fail to understand what Minnesota does. You get a complete set of solar panels installed on your roof with NO OUT OF POCKET COST as a result of that you get free electricity from the sun. And it's is paid for by the excess electricity generated. ( typically 7-11 years). Once it's paid for I'll be paid for any excess electricity I generate. Modern quality panels have a 30 year+ life with a guaranteed rate of deterioration.
Caveats. First your house needs to qualify. ( hence, cut down the trees).
SecondIt's actually a federal program administered by the state. What I fail to understand is why all states aren't offering it.
Well I can understand some states like Washington with surplus hydroelectric power probably still being paid for.
Other states with high cloud cover that don't make economic sense.
I'm also responsible for any month where there isn't enough sunlite to generate all my electrical needs. ( in other words if the sun only shines enough in November to cover 1/2 my electric bill I pay the other 1/2.
Luckily November tends to be a low electric bill month. But if Dec& Jan. Are also cloudy there I might have to come up with $20-30 or whatever. Basically the less electricity I use and the sunnier it is the sooner the debt is paid off.
Wait, how is there any debt to pay off if there's no out of pocket cost to you?
You talk about this a lot, and I've looked into it several times and I haven't been able to find anything that indicates there's any truth to your claims about this.
Well I have. And I've spoken to people with solar panels under this program. I'm a prudent, careful, person.
If your state doesn't have a program like this why not? They are public utilities. Why send your money out of state to pay for fuel and bigger and bigger electricity plants?
The program is actually administered by the utility companies affected. They have the budget for replacement plants. Which is used to pay for the panel program.
If you call the number they have a satellite view of your roof and can't tell you very quickly if you'd qualify. Then they carefully explain everything involved. Make up your own mind I'm not here to sell anything.
In reply to mtn :
I wasn't really caring about the looks too much but more on the range+capacity+towing. That's getting close to full size suv areas. They also claim a 24 minute charge to 80%. There's sone good stuff going on there.
mtn said:In reply to bobzilla :
I think the EV6 is one of the best looking cars for sale today. Possibly the best in the tall-sedan-hatchback-thing category.
I'm not sold on the Ev9, though I haven't seen it in person, it looks like a telluride doing military cosplay to me.
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
I have looked very hard at buying an electric car numerous times. Come close. But the $$$ calculations just don't make sense yet compared to a conventional car or conventional hybrid, for me. Or if they do, the car isn't good enough (lookin at you, Ford Fusion Energi with no trunk).
I hate to sound ignorant but what is an EV6 ?
mtn said:
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
I have looked very hard at buying an electric car numerous times. Come close. But the $$$ calculations just don't make sense yet compared to a conventional car or conventional hybrid, for me. Or if they do, the car isn't good enough (lookin at you, Ford Fusion Energi with no trunk).
With modern ice cars right now the gap between them and even hybrids has gotten really close. Close enough that just looking at the numbers many just don't make sense.
the current sportage hybrid gets 42/44mpg and to get it equipped like the wife's Seltos costs $33000 plus tax. No rebate. The wife's Seltos cost us $25k, and I'm seeing a combined 39mpg with it, 37mpg highway.
on a 20k mile average for us, with gas at $3.50/gallon that's $300 per year difference in fuel cost and no change in maintenance costs. To cover that $8k price difference we are talking 26 years. We would need to drive 50k miles a year to recoup that cost in 10years. That means you'd have a car with 500k miles on a 10 year old car. Don't get me wrong, Kia makes good cars and all but that many miles would incur a crap load of repairs ncluding at least one battery pack.
In reply to frenchyd :
Tell me you haven't done any research on ev's without telling me you haven't done any research on ev's.
SV reX said:In reply to STM317 :
Credit card purchases are free, right?
If you pay it off every month, it doesn't cost anymore than using cash. And it actually costs less because of cash back incentives.
But I understand most people don't have the discipline for that.
STM317 said:frenchyd said:In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
As far as 10 year payback? I believe you fail to understand what Minnesota does. You get a complete set of solar panels installed on your roof with NO OUT OF POCKET COST as a result of that you get free electricity from the sun. And it's is paid for by the excess electricity generated. ( typically 7-11 years). Once it's paid for I'll be paid for any excess electricity I generate. Modern quality panels have a 30 year+ life with a guaranteed rate of deterioration.
Caveats. First your house needs to qualify. ( hence, cut down the trees).
SecondIt's actually a federal program administered by the state. What I fail to understand is why all states aren't offering it.
Well I can understand some states like Washington with surplus hydroelectric power probably still being paid for.
Other states with high cloud cover that don't make economic sense.
I'm also responsible for any month where there isn't enough sunlight to generate all my electrical needs. ( in other words if the sun only shines enough in November to cover 1/2 my electric bill I pay the other 1/2.
Luckily November tends to be a low electric bill month. But if Dec& Jan. Are also cloudy there I might have to come up with $20-30 or whatever. Basically the less electricity I use and the sunnier it is the sooner the debt is paid off.
Wait, how is there any debt to pay off if there's no out of pocket cost to you?
You talk about this a lot, and I've looked into it several times and I haven't been able to find anything that indicates there's any truth to your claims about this.
I'll try to spell it out for you.
The Panel company installs and connects the panels. In turn they are paid by the utility company.
The panels pay for themselves in an average of 7-11 years from the excess electricity generated.
Each state is different. Here in Minnesota you are credited with any electricity you provide at last years cost. So if it's 11. 7 per kWh last year. And they are getting 12 3 this year the difference is the added profit they make with no additional cost to the utility company. Iowa is similar and Wisconsin has had a few different programs since I sold Wind Generators. Beyond that I don't know every state.
Now some states don't credit panels? I'm not sure how that works? I mean the furnace and air conditioner is credited, the sink and dishwasher are credited? But they exclude solar panels bolted to the house?
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