What does the future of our favorite GM performance models—like the Corvette, Camaro and even the upcoming Cadillac Blackings—look like? It may already be difficult to tell, but it might be even trickier now that GM just announced plans to “eliminate tailpipe emissions from new light-duty vehicles by 2035” and reach “carbon neutrality in its global products and operations by 2040.” …
My thoughts:
That's 14 years from now. A lot can happen in 14 years. The people running GM today won't be running it in 2035. Will GM even exist? The people running the country today may not even be alive in 2035. Who knows what the world will be like in 2035. Did we have any idea in 2006 that we would be running around wearing masks in 2020?
In reply to Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) :
A really good point. That is a long time from now, and it seems pretty easy to tell the world "hey look at what we are going to do in 14 years." Whether or not they follow through will probably big the bigger news item.
Is a Corvette "light duty passenger vehicles?" Asking for a friend that may be able to afford a new one by 2035 (to go with my late life crisis)
Aside from my rabid hatred of the "Mustang" Mach-E being mislabeled, I'm actually okay with electric cars. For the general populace. For probably 3/4 of the regular drivers out there they will be perfectly adequate and acceptable, and the diminished maintenance will be a fair compensation for the (certainly) increased cost.
As for me, I will just keep driving my outdated IC engine vehicle as long as gas pumps exit. At my age I'll be done driving before they cease to exist.
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) said:Is a Corvette "light duty passenger vehicles?" Asking for a friend that may be able to afford a new one by 2035 (to go with my late life crisis)
Yes,
Although, from a regulatory standpoing, it's light duty vehicle. All cars fall into that category. Trucks have the option of being a Medium Duty or Heavy Duty vehicle, which has different requirements.
The thing is- for the most part, the opny MDV or HDV that normal consuers buy are to tow something really big- RV, Horses, etc, or actually be something really big- RV. And lots of those are sold by third party companies, like Winnebago.
But that has nothing to do with a Corvette being a passenger car or light duty vehicle.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:That's 14 years from now. A lot can happen in 14 years. The people running GM today won't be running it in 2035. Will GM even exist? The people running the country today may not even be alive in 2035. Who knows what the world will be like in 2035. Did we have any idea in 2006 that we would be running around wearing masks in 2020?
True, but it's this is a big, big change, and if they are going to do it, they need to start now. Besides, the whole industry is going this way. I certainly don't think that the market will be EV-only by 2035, but it's going to have a lot more EVs than it does now.
Honestly, we're getting close to the inflection point. Once range, price, and charger availability all fall into an acceptable area for averge folks, I think EV sales are going to take off.
I won't miss pumping gas- what with the stinky 'clean' gas, cigarette butts, chew, diesel, tampons, etc. laying around.... nasty.
So where do we stand on power generation? I get that electrics pollute less at the point if use, but IIRC coal is a finite resource. I have not heard great things about wind and solar, and nuclear has an issue with waste products. So where is all of this juice going to come from in the future?
On a related not, what happens to gas stations if all cars to electric? I heard somewhere that they make almost nothing on selling fuel, it is the snacks and drinks you buy where they earn their dough. So do they all just become convenience stores with no gas?
And what about states where you can't pump your own gas, is it NJ? Does someone have to plug in your eVette? Inquiring minds want to know.
And if you run out of charge, can you hitch-hike to the nearest charging station, buy a portable battery with the equivalent of 1 gallons of gas then then walk back to your Tesla and recharge enough to get off the shoulder and to a charger? Can you just carry a spare with you? Will AAA bring you a small battery for a quick refill? 10-bucks says that after a few years, the government will mandate a redesigned charging plug that sucks and spills electricity all over the place.
What's ICYMI mean?
WonkoTheSane (FS) said:What's ICYMI mean?
In Case You Missed It
We really need to star rebuilding all the hydroelectric dams that were decommissioned in the 90s.
berkeley the salmon.
I was a little surprised, but impressed.
And the idea of a Corvette with all-the-torque at zero rpm sound great to me.
In reply to pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) :
Exactly, I don't think at the rate electric cars come about that we can support the power it will take to charge all of them. Will we cause more pollution to generate the power we need for all of that?
Ultimately, they'll sell what sells. At some point the lunatic fringe that's buying electric cars will have their electric car. That will still leave a significant chunk of the market that's interested in a vehicle with a more conventional powerplant.
1988RedT2 said:Ultimately, they'll sell what sells. At some point the lunatic fringe that's buying electric cars will have their electric car. That will still leave a significant chunk of the market that's interested in a vehicle with a more conventional powerplant.
5 years ago it was a "lunatic fringe". Not so much anymore. The advantages of an EV are undeniable, and the disadvantages are being reduced all the time.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:That's 14 years from now. A lot can happen in 14 years. The people running GM today won't be running it in 2035. Will GM even exist? The people running the country today may not even be alive in 2035. Who knows what the world will be like in 2035. Did we have any idea in 2006 that we would be running around wearing masks in 2020?
On top of the billions they've already sunk into it, they're spending $27 Billion on this stuff in the next 5 years, when a lot of the leaders are likely to still be around. You don't sink that kind of cash into something to bail on that market. Their BrightDrop system seems pretty well thought out to me and already has FedEx orders on board.The modular Ultium battery packs with wireless motor integration has the potential to be a game changer for cheap/versatile EV manufacturing.
And GM's not alone in these kinds of investments. Other OEMs can see the writing on teh wall for many governments around the world. If you want to sell new vehicles in another 10-15 years, they're going to have to be zero emissions. VW is spending 86 Billion through 2025 on EVs and related tech too. There's too much investment taking place to not follow through with the products.
The electric cars will have to have the same range as the gas powered ones they are replacing. And when the batteries are depleted you will have to recharge them as fast as you fill your gas tank. I'm not saying they can't do it. I'm sure that's what they are working on now.
Where is the economy going to be in 14 years? Will the poor people who can't afford to drop 40K on a self driving electric car with all the bells and whistles still be patching their old oil burners together. Or will the smog police come in with guns and take their old oil burners away, telling them to borrow money from the bank to pay the General or learn to ride the bus. I see a future where brand new expensive EVs are still sharing the road with oilburners here in the US, and a different future in Europe and China where the government has the power to take the oilburners away. What about the Third World where the money to put charge stations all over the countryside just isn't there nor is the money to buy expensive EVs. Or even in this country? Who will spend the money to put charge stations out in the sticks? Will there be charge stations in the Australian Outback, or will four wheel drive oilburners still be used outside of civilization.
What about vintage car racing. Will the old race cars still be allowed to run on the track, like horses that used to be the core of our transportation system but also have emission problems that have to be dealt with.
Maybe in 50 years or 100 years gas burning cars are going to go away, but in 14 years? This will be a transition period.
I do have this image of an unmanned station out in the desert somewhere with windmills and solar panels charging batteries inside a shed, with cables with plugs coiled up next to the shed to charge cars that come by. The batteries also power florescent lights lighting the place up all night long. A vending machine that dispenses Caffe Latte. Maybe a few coyotes watching the lonely building from a distance as tumbleweeds blow by.
Life in 2035.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:The electric cars will have to have the same range as the gas powered ones they are replacing. And when the batteries are depleted you will have to recharge them as fast as you fill your gas tank. I'm not saying they can't do it. I'm sure that's what they are working on now.
Where is the economy going to be in 14 years? Will the poor people who can't afford to drop 40K on a self driving electric car with all the bells and whistles still be patching their old oil burners together. Or will the smog police come in with guns and take their old oil burners away, telling them to borrow money from the bank to pay the General or learn to ride the bus. I see a future where brand new expensive EVs are still sharing the road with oilburners here in the US, and a different future in Europe and China where the government has the power to take the oilburners away. What about the Third World where the money to put charge stations all over the countryside just isn't there nor is the money to buy expensive EVs. Or even in this country? Who will spend the money to put charge stations out in the sticks? Will there be charge stations in the Australian Outback, or will four wheel drive oilburners still be used outside of civilization.
What about vintage car racing. Will the old race cars still be allowed to run on the track, like horses that used to be the core of our transportation system but also have emission problems that have to be dealt with.
Maybe in 50 years or 100 years gas burning cars are going to go away, but in 14 years? This will be a transition period.
All they're saying, is that everything you'll be able to buy brand new will be zero emissions. The average age of vehicles on the road in the US is around 12 years right now, and they're lasting longer all the time. It will probably take a couple of decades from the time all new vehicles sold are zero emissions before most of the fleet is electric. So 2055-ish probably, unless the market landscape changes with lots of incentives for EVs or significant penalties for ICEs. And by 2055, there will be plenty of cheap, used EVs out there. Heck, by 2035, the early Tesla Model S will be a 23 year old, used car. EVs should be a blessing for those with limited means, as they should be more reliable, and have lower running costs, while lasting longer. But that remains to be seen, since we don't have enough data for 10-12 year old EVs. Charging for those without a dedicated space is the big unknown, but most of the stuff coming out right now already offers like 80 miles of range in 5-10 minutes @ a fast charger. That's good enough for most people to get where they're going. Especially if they'd started their trip with a full charge and already travelled 100-300 miles.
pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) said:So where do we stand on power generation? I get that electrics pollute less at the point if use, but IIRC coal is a finite resource. I have not heard great things about wind and solar, and nuclear has an issue with waste products. So where is all of this juice going to come from in the future?
On a related not, what happens to gas stations if all cars to electric? I heard somewhere that they make almost nothing on selling fuel, it is the snacks and drinks you buy where they earn their dough. So do they all just become convenience stores with no gas?
And what about states where you can't pump your own gas, is it NJ? Does someone have to plug in your eVette? Inquiring minds want to know.
And if you run out of charge, can you hitch-hike to the nearest charging station, buy a portable battery with the equivalent of 1 gallons of gas then then walk back to your Tesla and recharge enough to get off the shoulder and to a charger? Can you just carry a spare with you? Will AAA bring you a small battery for a quick refill? 10-bucks says that after a few years, the government will mandate a redesigned charging plug that sucks and spills electricity all over the place.
You keep forgetting... 'lectricty is that magic stuff that comes out of the wall...
I see a dim future for automotive enthusiasts. Gas taxes and other fees will be increased rapidly to encourage the purchase of electric cars and further incentives to trade in your gas powered car are sure to follow. Don't get started on what these cars themselves will cost. "Green zones" will prevent you from driving a gas car in certain areas, and they will expand. (At some point no cars will be allowed in some areas, too much congestion. Its already happening in Europe.) As if todays cars (with the exception of a few special models) weren't soulless enough, the latest electro-pod will be even worse. Much like horses today, gas powered cars will be a hobby for the very rich.
This must be what it felt like to be a engineer on a steam locomotive when diesels took over. The artful machine you loved is taken away and cut up for scrap, replaced by an electric appliance.....
Lucky for me. I'll be retired in 15 years and be able to move far into the country (or to another country) where gas cars will be allowed for a little longer. By the time I'm no longer allowed a gas powered car (Guessing another 15 years) I'll be dead.
Gas may be down to a single pump or two at stations like kerosene is now. It won't go away though.
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