I lost interest after they did away with the winged Superbirds and Charger Daytonas. The spec cars are just boring.
I lost interest after they did away with the winged Superbirds and Charger Daytonas. The spec cars are just boring.
In reply to L5wolvesf :
Popcorn for everyone!
Wally (Forum Supporter) said:Gather round kids, it's that time again. People that wouldn't watch NASCAR regardless of what they did are going to explain how to fix it.
I hear ya and agree to a point. I was a HUGE Nascar fan for a long time. Then I found Australian v8 supercars! Such a better show.
Now, Nascar are much closer to the supercars.
I really can't stand the stages. It's also tough to follow who is where on points and it's convoluted.
Otherwise, lots of changes that have occurred over the last 4 or 5 years are awesome!
The cars are better, drivers from all over, DIRT races!!! Awesome. Lots more road course racing too.
I'll admit, I have been watching it alot more this year than I have in a decade.
Datsun310Guy said:frenchyd said:SUV's sell do race those
Kinda out there? I found this fascinating to watch.
Stadium Super trucks is my favorite modern race series bar none. Bad race cars make great fun.
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
There are things they do wrong, and there's more competition for viewers than there was in the 90s so nothing will bring that kind of audience back, but no one anywhere seems to want to watch production SUVs race. There are already numerous production based racing series that 10s of people in the US are watching. Pretty much every top tier racing series is using a tube framed or tub based car.
Tom1200 said:If I ruled NASCAR I'd do the following:
Eliminate the absurd stages; either have heat races or get rid of the "stages" totally.
Take the downforce out of the cars; make them slide around more.
Get rid of the faux excitement; no one is fooled by the hype. Do what needs to be done to keep the racing close as it can be.
Restrictor plate races are a tough one; I suspect they are highly popular but they are also unnecessarily dangerous. There are better solutions.
I like the idea of sliding around more. Perhaps we could do that with harder rubber in the tires?
Regarding speedways like Daytona etc. where plates have to be used, could we go to more production based engines? Limit it to production based castings, limited CC's. Smaller valve sizes? Factory intake manifolds?
In reply to bumpsteer :
I agree that is exciting racing. More in line with young peoples video game mentality.
Us older geezers still can cheer good driving even if our backs ache just looking at those trucks going over the jumps. Do you think it's as brutal on the drivers as it looks?
I'll also agree with the make the cars less connected to the ground comments. You can do it a bunch of ways (downforce, tire compound, tire construction, tire size) and that's for the pros to figure out.
For me the biggest problem is race length. I refuse to sit for 4 hours and watch a race, and I watch a E36 M3 ton of racing. F1 has a 2 hour cap and NASCAR would probably help itself significantly if it looked at something similar. Race length is a consideration for a lot of lower tier series too. I e seen late model races with 12 cars that are 100 laps. That's boring to watch. 30 cars for 100 laps, cool, 12 cars, nap time.
If nascar made a change from running cars they would more likely switch to the composite truck bodies similar to what they use in the truck series. Heck with the suv and crossover the track are by far the best selling vehicles and far more relevant as they are all body on frame rather then unibody
NY Nick said:I'll also agree with the make the cars less connected to the ground comments. You can do it a bunch of ways (downforce, tire compound, tire construction, tire size) and that's for the pros to figure out.
For me the biggest problem is race length. I refuse to sit for 4 hours and watch a race, and I watch a E36 M3 ton of racing. F1 has a 2 hour cap and NASCAR would probably help itself significantly if it looked at something similar. Race length is a consideration for a lot of lower tier series too. I e seen late model races with 12 cars that are 100 laps. That's boring to watch. 30 cars for 100 laps, cool, 12 cars, nap time.
I have to "buy into" the race to make watching any race worthwhile. Either know, like, or cheer for a particular car, driver, sponsor?
I used to pick independent's in NASCAR knowing full well the odds of even finishing. That way a 20 th place finish Was a win!!!
Even a short race can't hold my attention if I'm not invested.
So is gambling going to do it? Bet a dollar some back marker will finish 10th or better and win $20?
It is always about the personalities. Always has been, always will be. It's not really about the racing.
Same as football - even the most diehard football fans who know more about the game than Andy Reid still have a strong opinion about Tom Brady, good or bad. We watch football to see how he does. Or to see belichick lose, etc. Basketball? Same deal. Soccer? Hockey? Baseball? F1?
It's all about the personalities. That's what makes a viewer invested. They have to care about the person or the team.
Want to get someone to watch nascar? Get them to care about a driver/team. Or (as I believe nascar started doing recently), find drivers that lots of people already care about from other venues and bring them in. Pastrana anyone?
One thing I think would actually really help is to get the nascar teams associated with a physical area (think "Chicago" bulls). Robert Kraft makes a whole lot of money by letting his team have a name other than "the Kraft Patriots" (and suddenly all of new england thinks it's their team rather than his). I think nascar teams should learn from that.
I only like the pits in nascar. so fast!
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:Driven5 said:In reply to frenchyd :
So, if you ruled NASCAR... You'd light it on fire and roll it off a cliff?
Already been done. See Cletus McFarland.
I'm curious what you mean by this. Are you saying Cleetus has had some affect on nascar?
In reply to frenchyd :
Unfortunately if they're going to continue running superspeedways restrictors are the most effective way to control speeds. The track records were aet with production castings long ago, modern engines are going to be faster unrestricted. It takes surprisingly few cubic inches to clear 200 mph at those tracks. When plates were first introduced some teams tested smaller engines to make better use of the available air/fuel and went faster. When the tracks were first built they didn't have full fields of fast reliable cars so 50 miles in you had a lead pack of maybe 5-6 cars. Realistically the only way to end big wrecks there is to stop going.
In reply to NY Nick :
Time is everyone's biggest complaint. No one has or wants to devote entire days to an event anymore. I'd love to see them go to a format like they did for the Clash at short tracks, and cut speedway races to 300 or so miles.
preach (dudeist priest) said:I only like the pits in nascar. so fast!
My favorite WRC footage is the service parks, which they rarely show. Change tires? Try changing suspensions and subframes and transmissions... and you have 20 minutes from drive-in to drive-out
Pete. (l33t FS) said:preach (dudeist priest) said:I only like the pits in nascar. so fast!
My favorite WRC footage is the service parks, which they rarely show. Change tires? Try changing suspensions and subframes and transmissions... and you have 20 minutes from drive-in to drive-out
Or the famous 2000 Audi Le Mans transmission change in 5 minutes
In reply to MotorsportsGordon :
Bread and butter in WRC 
Nothing new though... the engineers at Boreham had a way to change the transmission in a Group 4 Escort in under two minutes. Bellhousing was modified to keep the input shaft in the bellhousing, bellhousing had two through bolts on the bottom and the top was held in with two tabs on a bracket accessed through the inside of the car. Later in the Group A era when they had turbochargers with a lifespan lower than the tires, they could change a turbo very quickly with a combination of slip fits, slotted holes, and studs. Remove one bolt, loosen three nuts, while someone else removes the lines from the other side of the engine, rotate the turbo out and dump onto the ground still glowing red
Even when the cars were not designed for service, the guys could, say, swap cylinder heads on a 5M-G Toyota in twenty minutes.
When I was at a 24 Hours of Lemons, the real action was in the pits. All sorts of rapid-fire quick fixes and emergency engineering.
Dirt. Dirt. And more dirt. I watched the second (?) Eldora race, where the second place truck practically destroyed itself trying to catch first. That was the most exciting race I've ever seen.
And production engines. I want what they have. You have a turbo 4 that makes 1,000? I want that. In a minivan I buy on Monday.
Appleseed said:Dirt. Dirt. And more dirt. I watched the second (?) Eldora race, where the second place truck practically destroyed itself trying to catch first. That was the most exciting race I've ever seen.
And production engines. I want what they have. You have a turbo 4 that makes 1,000? I want that. In a minivan I buy on Monday.
I like a good dirt race. I don't think the trucks or cup cars put on a hood dirt race. They seem too stiff to really work well on dirt. Probably doesn't help that they are a little portly.
I got out of the dirt scene for a while, and I don't love watching it in person because it is messy, but if you want to watch great racing on dirt check out the Big Block Modifieds. Opening night at Fonda is tonight and it's on flo racing every week. Those cars are much more nimble on dirt and you will see different lines and big changes in position gaps from lap to lap based on traffic and track conditions.
In reply to NY Nick :
Dirt Modifieds are the best show around, I'm headed to Middletown this afternoon. You're right, the Nascar cars are too heavy among other problems. It was a fun idea but it's run it's course.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:It is always about the personalities. Always has been, always will be. It's not really about the racing.
Spot on. Drive to Survive did that to F1 and grew the fan base big time, especially in the US.
They e36ing the bed at Talladega right now that's for sure.
Can't wait for yet another trip to Bristol this fall. I love that venue, and that race.
If you stop the video during the looking back at Larson and Preece from the wall, you can see how damaged the cage is in Larson's car.
There's footage from Preece's in-car looking at him, and you can see how much he moved during the hit. Havn't found that vid yet.
I would love to see them get away from this pack racing. It's nothing more than a roll of the dice, and the potential for injury is pretty high.
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