Indy - Honda engines

Honda builds Indy car engines and Honda is pasted all over the cars so I think performance.

But I drive a boring Accord and I don't see much performance in the Honda lineup except maybe the Civic Si?

So why the disconnect?

Engines = amazing.

Rest of car = m3h.

http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-technology/honda-35l-sohc-v-6

I want to put one of those in a locost.

I watched the race. But I remember when there was some variety, buicks, offy's, Mercedes, heck if I recall one team showed up with a 350 chevy engine from a school bus. Sorry to see that this is all gone.

The disconnect is in your wallet. You want that tech you have to pay for it. It trickles down slowly.

Datsun310Guy wrote: Honda builds Indy car engines and Honda is pasted all over the cars so I think performance. But I drive a boring Accord and I don't see much performance in the Honda lineup except maybe the Civic Si? So why the disconnect?

Excitement doesn't sell to mainstream America. Honda's golden age ended around 2001, when suspensions and engines were fantastic. After that, some great engines came about, but the chassis got heavier, and suckier in terms of suspensions.

Meanwhile, most of America wanted (and still wants) reliable appliances because they don't care about driving dynamics.

Maybe someday they'll return to their greatness.

Toyota builds NASCAR engines...

Honda started going downhill in the late 90s. Same goes for toyota, I think they got on a such a roll they figured divine intervention would keep them going.

I think Honda still makes the best 4 cylinder engines out there. The B series are legendary. The F20 that powered the S2000 is legendary. The K20 is legendary. Heck, even the D series that came in my CRX was solid.

Alot of the technology and designs in the S2000 were based off stuff they had derived from their major race teams, and it shows.

Formula 1 technology always did find a way to trickle into our daily cars, next thing we will see is the e-tron tech and regenerative brakes, repioneered to make the car more green.

Trans_Maro wrote: Toyota builds NASCAR engines...

And they race against Fords that don't have overhead cams..

In reply to novaderrik:

Not arguing for or against, I don't like NASCAR.

Just trying to point out the futility of the first example.

SAAB builds aircraft but it didn't keep them from building... SAAB cars.

Daewoo builds forklifts.. Wait, that one actually applies.

Trans_Maro wrote: Toyota builds NASCAR engines...

Ya but they also build cars to suit powerful engines like the ISF.

I do agree with the OP, but as I recall, when GRM compared a CRX to the CRZ the newer car was as good or better in nearly every objective measure. I think it is that other piece which cannot be measured that is lacking.

I also believe that the bar for a car to be considered exceptional is VERY high these days.

This little guy got me excited, but I hear they won't likely be bringing them to the US. 65ish hp and well under 1 ton.

I think some of you have some nice glasses when looking at the past- back in the 80s, when Hondas engines dominated F1, the only "performance" car they had was the CRX Si. Which was a great car, don't get me wrong, but it was nothing like what the S2000 or NSX was. They finally did the Accord's V6 in a super car to show that the work they are doing is serious.

EVEN with the mostly lack of performance cars, the F1 work did a lot for the company. And still does, and probably still will- if any company is going to translate the comlexity that is now F1 into road cars, its them. Mercedes may, but they can charge a massive premium- Honda can't, and I bet wont. And the results will be great in the measurements Honda intends- fuel economy, emissions, and then performance.

Just to point out that the rules were changed for Toyota to be in Nascar. At no point that I can find has Toyota ever built a cam in block V-8. The push rod engine in the Toyotas are race engines specifically for Nascar.

Ford, Chevy, and used to be Dodge were all running engines that evolved directly from a production engine. The Toyota always has been a straight race engine for a single series.

It has nothing to do with any Toyota production vehicle. So it, like the Honda, is very disconnected.

Comparing a manufacturers race specific engine and production engines is like comparing apples to oranges.

Oldsmobile dominated the IRL for years. 5 championships, 49 wins and 51 poles in 51 races. Look at all the good it did their street cars.

iceracer wrote: Comparing a manufacturers race specific engine and production engines is like comparing apples to oranges.

Apples and oranges are both delicious fruits. You can make healthy breakfast beverages out of both. Each has a tasty artificial flavor named after it.

In reply to alfadriver: This is the Internet, quit using logic!

Trans_Maro wrote: Toyota builds NASCAR engines...

That thing got a Hemi in it?

(note: Toyota built those until something like 1998.)

Flight Service wrote: At no point that I can find has Toyota ever built a cam in block V-8.

I says pardon?

The post above this one.

They've been around since the 1970's

I'd bet there isn't a single part on a NASCAR race car that is in common with a production vehicle. Maybe a fastener or two?

freestyle wrote: I'd bet there isn't a single part on a NASCAR race car that is in common with a production vehicle. Maybe a fastener or two?

My understanding is that the engine block is the only part with an OEM product/part number.

stroker wrote:

freestyle wrote: I'd bet there isn't a single part on a NASCAR race car that is in common with a production vehicle. Maybe a fastener or two?

My understanding is that the engine block is the only part with an OEM product/part number.

The block and heads have to have an OEM part number. This does not mean that they have to come on a street vehicle, only that they have a part number attached. IIRC they also have to be available to anyone. Somewhere I remember that the intake manifolds also have to be available. Apparently you can get them from Summit for $600-700 or so.

I think, but am not sure, that the R07 heads are/were only available as raw castings. Not sure about anything else.

I think the only thing the R07 has in common with anything production is the bellhousing bolt pattern, which is the same as small block Chevy. Which, ironically enough, isn't used anymore either, the GenIV is slightly different.

stroker wrote:

freestyle wrote: I'd bet there isn't a single part on a NASCAR race car that is in common with a production vehicle. Maybe a fastener or two?

My understanding is that the engine block is the only part with an OEM product/part number.

It's older tech now, but the V6 blocks and heads Ford used to run in the BGN series were available through the Ford Racing catalog.

They're insanely beefy. I know of several Supercoupe engine builds using these parts, and the standard 3.8/4.2 accessories/bell housing bolt right on.