Hey hive, considering putting a 2010 TDI Sportwagen into the fleet, and am wondering if it's worth the added work, or if there isn't actually any added work just different work?
It would be my first diesel but not my first VW. This one is a stripped down 6 speed without the pano roof. Single owner, 200k, all records.
Runs and drives wonderfully, just a little nervous to jump into the clack clack clack world of post dieselgate cars!
GF has a 2013 JSW TDI 6speed. She's put 35k on it in the last 2 years. The only issues it's given her were when a bicycle fell off the truck in front of her.
They're pretty good cars. The emissions systems are the thing to watch out for. They don't like short trips. The regen needs a longer trip here and there to fully cycle. We get like 55mpg highway in it. It drives really nice. Lots of room for activities or sleeping.
I've had experience at both ends of the spectrum. Had a 2011 Jetta Sportwagen TDI that I loved for about a year and sold it to a friends wife who still drives it to this day, hasn't had any major issues outside of warranty AFAIK. Then, last year I had a 2013 Golf TDI that had the HPFP blow up the day after I bought it, causing me to have to spend around 5k in repairs. Unloaded it shortly after just cause I couldn't help but hate that car afterwards. That being said, I'd only buy another one if I intended to immediately do a CP3 conversion and full deletes... That's just me :)
Regen can be forced with a Ross-Tech or similar but it still requires driving over X speed between Y and Z rpm (like to say it works out to 62mph in 4th gear, at least with the DSG) and you have to keep watching the measuring blocks to see when it finally decides to regen. You don't feel it but you can watch EGT skyrocket. There are several temp sensors in the exhaust train and you can tell what is happening by inference, which is kinda neat.
I had a Mk4 TDI and loved it. Probably not the most helpful direct comparison, but I think there are some qualities shared across generations:
-TDIs are not designed to be as efficient as possible, they're designed to be regular cars with diesel engines. That means that there aren't designed compromises for efficiency -- go for a highway drive in a Prius in comparison and you'll know what I mean.
- There are some big money items that gasoline cars don't have and vice versa -- but in my experience, TDIs tend to have 2-3 more than a plain NA gasser. If you hit them and don't own the car for long enough, you will not have a lower cost per mile than the equivalent NA gasser model. Same goes for the price of diesel -- sometimes it was really cheap relative to gas, other times not so much.
So, overall your experience is going to depend on what your wants and expectations are. If you want to get from A-B cheaply, go buy a Prius. If you want to get from A-B cheaply and tow a small trailer once in a while, get the TDI. If you want to go really fast, go buy an actual sports car. If you want to cruise comfortably at 80 mph inexpensively, get the TDI.
Also, TDIs got weird after diesel gate: A lot of the more "normal" TDI owners got scared off, and a fan base more opposed to even the existence of the EPA took hold. Plus, as trucks got more expensive the wannabe diesel brodozer crowd discovered they were a cheaper option that could still roll coal. I joined several TDI Facebook groups and honestly never been more embarrassed to own a particular vehicle. There are so many people on their that knee jerk to "delete the EGR" even older cars where it's dead simple in northern climates where it's actually useful -- and don't get me started on the hood stack trend.
Anyway, they can do stuff like this and that's why they're great in my opinion:
2012 Touareg TDI here... In regard to regen cycles, I didn't know it was a thing until I had a CEL with a code for clogged DPF. Much of the internet said I was screwed and would need to replace $1,000 worth of parts.
It was actually quite easy to fix with some Liquimoly stuff and a sprayer (my motive brake bleeder with a tube and nozzle).
The key to DPF health is to avoid lots of short trips without a good long one to run a burn cycle and don't let it sit idling for longer than necessary.
Not much help but I had a 01 tdi golf for some time as I was driving 2 hrs a day round trip. It was a nice cheap ride. 80 mph and 50+ mpg and could still pass trucks with ease. Besides doing the timing belt,water pump I had the alternator go out. Then at 300k the rest of the car was falling apart including the sunroof wires...it was a great car.
I drove 2 Sportwagens pre Dieselgate (both manual) and what I remember is that when driven normally the torque makes them feel like they have a stout V8 but you have to upshift quick before it falls on its face. I loved it. Also, expect bonkers mpg if it hasn't been "fixed" by VW.
In reply to A 401 CJ :
A friend bought one of the fixed cars and fuel economy is still bonkers. We were getting 42mpg driving 80mph in just-above-freezing rain with three people in the car.
I can get good economy from cars but colder weather makes economy drop from the denser air. Rain makes economy drop precipitously (tee hee) from having to push the water from the road. And 80mph is usually outside the economy curve for anything.
Color me really impressed.
Manual transmission is a plus for lower maintenance in these cars, since the DSG calls for a fluid service every 40k miles.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to A 401 CJ :
A friend bought one of the fixed cars and fuel economy is still bonkers. We were getting 42mpg driving 80mph in just-above-freezing rain with three people in the car.
I can get good economy from cars but colder weather makes economy drop from the denser air. Rain makes economy drop precipitously (tee hee) from having to push the water from the road. And 80mph is usually outside the economy curve for anything.
Color me really impressed.
42mpg is pretty impressive in those conditions. My friend had a tdi jetta wagon that he sold back to VW during diesel gate but he ended up buying a "fixed" car a year later. According to him the fixed car seems to get the same fuel mileage and feels the same, but he admits after a year he probably wouldn't recognize a minor change. In good weather on a long highway haul he can get into the 50's doing 65-70. Not sure you can do much better with 4 wheels and airbags.
I played a bit with the hyper miling craze back in 2008-2009 and my biggest takeway is that the financial benefit really starts to taper off at these ultra-high mpg numbers. Going from a truck that gets 10mpg to a sedan that gets 20mpg could literally make a $400/mo fuel bill drop to $200. The same 10mpg jump from a 40mpg civic to a 50mpg jetta would make a $120 fuel bill go to $100. At some point as mpg numbers climb, fuel costs are low enough that the initial purchase price and reliability/taxes/insurance might play a bigger factor in total cost per mile compared to fuel mileage.
Can't speak to VW's, haven't had one since Golf GTI in the 70's, but my last three cars have been 2.0 Ford diesels - Focus 3, Focus 4 wagon and an Escape. Before I bought the Escape I test drove the 2l Ecoboost version as well as the diseasel but still went with the diesel.
From an ownership cost perspective the diesel servicing costs are about 10% higher than the petrol version and the only out of the ordinary cost has been the dual speed oil pump in the Escape and I believe the petrol eco-boosts use the same system.
Fuel costs come down on the diesel side although the system here where diesel carries no roading tax but you pay per kilometre which dilutes the advantage. The Focus 3 averaged right around 6.5 l per 100km with 5l per hundred on trips. The Focus 4 is around 6.1 and 4.8 on trips. The Escape weighs about the same but has the frontal area of a small house, so 7 round town and 6.1 on trips.
With an ownership history of biggish engines in smallish cars I am addicted to mid range torque and all three diesels deliver that in spades.
cheers
R
Mileage and maintenance aside, I just liked how they drove. All car's power output should be rated not at the peak, but at the rpm where people actually drive. Maybe manufs should use torque and not hp. Maybe it's just me. I rented a small oil burning Peugeot economy car in Chile last year and thought its 90 hp was plenty sufficient- not fast all but I love how they'll almost always take another gear and boost up any hill. Of course I didn't mind filling it either when I got back to the airport and found I'd only used about half a tank in over a week of driving. The scarcity of modern diesels in cars gives me the sads.
In reply to A 401 CJ :
The around town driveability of the GF's JSW is killer. Nice and torquey from idle up to 2500, which is where I am accustomed to shifting my 4.0L Jeep. Honestly, feels faster than my Jeep, which weighs the same and has 60 more BHP.
It's a good car for longer commutes, my 12' JSW handles 125+ miles a day without too much issue. I've had mine since April 2019 and have put close to 130K miles on it since. If I'd had it to do over again, I'd get the 6-speed and no pano roof. Maintenance outside of normal service has been both front calipers, they seized after a panic stop on two different occasions, right side then the left. The drivers front wheel bearing needed replaced this past spring, and a headlight bulb. Thankfully I've done all the work myself, including the DSG service every 40K and the T-belt at 130K. This wouldn't be an affordable car otherwise. I was naughty and did what a 3 letter agency tells you not to do, and I definitely don't regret that, the car drives so much better with a "staged" tune.
I had a 2010 Sportwagen TDI that I bought new and put 125k miles on before I sold it back to VW as part of the Dieselgate settlement. Had a love/hate relationship with the car.
Loved the way it drove, the fuel economy, and the space.
Hated it when it started to do VW things:
I have a 2014 Touareg TDI. As much as it pains me to say this about a German car, it's a pretty good. By far the best German car I have owned. I have a Malone Stage 2 tune on it. It has not been deleted though I have the parts and the tune on hand if it becomes a problem.
The loves: 305 hp. 490 Torque. Butter smooth 8 speed that always seems to be in the right gear. Comfortable. 7700 pound towing. Not too big, not too small. Have I mentioned the torque?
The hates. Part prices. Stinky diesel and the pumps that go with it. It is a little laggy at times. Keeping the transmission in sport mode solves it. Deleting the emissions crap is also supposed to solve it.
I have had zero emissions problems nor have I noticed any regen. That said, I drive it pretty hard and seldom make short trips.
Been interested in them for over a decade and always get shy when I hear about maintenance. Maybe I'll get the stones to buy one some day.
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