Is asking for a price reduction at the dealer not done anymore?

Daughter wants a 2018-2022 RAV4 hybrid, only source around here is dealers.  Went to 2, a Ford and a Toyota and found nice examples with minor issues.  One had crap tires, about 40% tread left the other had 95K miles so it was close to the 100K service.  Asked for a price reduction for these items or to resolve them.  Both places just smiled and said the price is not a negotiation it is take it or leave it.  Being January their sales are slow and we thought there would be some wiggle room.  Are we expecting too much?  Price is 18 to 23K just as a reference.

Did you make an actual offer?  I can't speak to any particular dealer but I always have better luck with "would XXXX get me out the door today?"

Yes, we asked for the tires or service or a $500 discount.

Would like to add this is a 10-15K cash down deal.

We purchased two cars in the last 12 months, one new, one used, both from dealers and they simply weren't bargaining.

On the used one we put 10K down (nearly 50%) and they still didn't care.

In our area a lot of the dealers are now part of huge corporations and this seems to effect their attitudes. On the new car I managed to get all of $500 off and that took some serious doing.

Quite a few dealers now advertise their "no haggle" pricing.  Some will still negotiate, but others not so much, especially on used stuff.  A lot of people shopping for appliances hate bargaining and just want to know the price up front, so dealers have been heading more in that direction.  Plus a lot don't really want to advertise the price much, they'd rather just talk monthly payments. 

As a former dealer, I was always amused that MSRP is negotiable when looking for a discount, and absolutely fixed when dealers add additional markup.  

May 2024: The Rowdy Audi was used (not CPO), one year old with 13k miles, from the local Audi dealer. I offered $5000 lower than asking, they did the standard deliberation and came back with $1200 lower than asking. I said berkeley it and bought the car.

Jan 2022: The Escape was 3 years old with 28k and was the higher of the two Ford CPO tiers. I had been watching inventory for a few weeks and knew the salesman was not lying when he said it would be gone in less than a week at full asking price, so that's what I paid.

Dealers make money on financing, so you might get a better price if you're accepting their loan vs paying cash. Just be sure there's no penalty for early payoff. Audi told me their loan couldn't be paid off until 4 monthly payments were made. On those terms, I wouldn't save any money vs paying cash. Some will argue opportunity cost, OMG I could have made money by putting that lump into XOM stock. Sure, OK, that may be true. But I've got an RS6 and they don't. 🤘🏻🤣🖕🏻

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

Dealers make money on financing, so you might get a better price if you're accepting their loan vs paying cash. Just be sure there's no penalty for early payoff. Audi told me their loan couldn't be paid off until 4 monthly payments were made. On those terms, I wouldn't save any money vs paying cash. Some will argue opportunity cost, OMG I could have made money by putting that lump into XOM stock. Sure, OK, that may be true. But I've got an RS6 and they don't. 🤘🏻🤣🖕🏻

The play on the loan if you have cash is to just make a huge first payment, then follow-up with the payoff in 4 months.  That dramatically reduces interest payments.

In my experience, the 'wait 4 months' thing is not actually in the contract but how long it takes for the dealer to get its end for selling the loan.  They lose if you pay early.  The VW dealer I bought my Sportwagen from was upfront about it and we had a handshake deal that I'd wait.  That spiff on the loan was baked into the offer they gave me, even if it wasn't on the deal sheet.

In reply to porschenut :

You commented on how hard it was to find a used RAV4 Hybrid.  That's because it's one of the hottest items out there...and the dealership knows it too.  

I had a dealer want me to wait 3 months to pay it off, presumably so they got a kickback from the bank. They played shenanigans with not immediately submitting the loan paperwork and then forged our signature on the amended paperwork. I paid it off the next day after I saw the forgery.

I think it depends on the dealers. We recently bought a 2012 Mazda 3 from a Honda dealer. I know I was tired and not in the mood to play game, and was happy with the online price as long as the car didn't need any work. 

It's minor and a selling tactic, but the price on the lot was $1k more than their online price. I have experienced (at other dealers) where if you didn't bring up the online price, they would quote you the higher price. 

They had already done tires, alignment brakes, alternator, filters, oil, and other minor repairs before we test drove it. We didn't push in price, but they also replaced a wheel bearing and axle based on noises I reported when we did the original test drive. 

I tried to get them to cover the cost of mounting and balancing of if I paid for snow tires, but the saleswoman said they couldnt do that since they had already installed new tires on the car.

I think she didn't understand/explain it properly to her manager, or was trying to hold firm. 

She probably didn't like me by the end of things, even though we paid the internet price. She was clueless about some things (down payments) and did not communicate well once we got past the initial inquiry. That resulted in several wasted drives to the dealer, and the sale manger offering to deliver the car to my son at work once plates were ready (sub $10k used car @ 25-30 miles away).

edit: the sales manager also offered to do the next oil change for free due to the aggravation. 

Have to be pretty cagey about the usual dealer add-ons. Few customers carefully look at things like documentation fees and such. I  had a bunch of that sort of thing to deal with when buying a minivan for my wife. I wasn't looking for a big reduction, just the deletion of the 'fluff' charges they added in - I pointed out that on a private sale the seller signed a transfer and there was no fee.   They gave in on that as well as a couple of other things, and we found a price, at which point having seen the Via sign on their wall, I pulled out my credit card and told them to put it on that.  They of course said they wouldn't take that much so I offered to call Visa and advise them that a dealer was refusing to take their card while still posting their signs with no indication anywhere that there was a limit on how much could be charged.  They finally had to cave and I put the $20+K on my card.

Some deals are worth going for - on the next car I shopped for my wife (at a different dealer ad brand) we were offered an oil change deal - so much money for lifetime free oil changes as long as we owned the car. That sort of arrangement has the dealer counting on the owner either selling the car again at which point the deal terminates, or on them being able to shop a bunch of other service items on the get more money out of the car owner.    Going on a decade that she has owned the car and she gets an oil change and a car wash twice a year.

Whatever you  do, read the sales contract before signing and ask about anything you don't understand, and if they say something that matters to you purchase, make sure it is in the written contract and if it isn't, ask them to write an addendum that includes it - they hate doing that but seem to be OK with blatantly lying to customers as long as it isn't in writing.

Having said all that, a dealer is entitled to hold firm on the advertised sale price and they often do, especially for new models that are in demand or have a waiting list.

Cash still talks.

When I was waiting for the '22 Bronco I had ordered to be built and shipped (but was delayed due to the MIC hard top issues), I happened to find a Bronco at a dealer that was the twin to the one I had ordered - same color (Carbonized Grey), same body style (2 door), same engine (V6), Sasquatch package, everything - except it was even better, being a higher trim, with leather seats, larger screen, etc. It was quite a bit more expensive than the Base model I had ordered, but I was tired of waiting, and waiting, and waiting some more for mine to be built. I made an offer on it, they countered, we went back and forth a bit, I finally wrote down a number significantly less than their lowest offer, slid it across the desk, and told them, "Cash."

I drove it home.

Naturally, just over a week later, Ford sends me an email that the Bronco I had ordered so long ago was finally scheduled to be built. I sure didn't need 2 nearly identical Broncos, but, since I was an original, Day One order holder, Ford would honor the original MSRP, no dealer markup - so, I bought it for that price, then turned around and sold it (to another dealer) for a respectable profit. Not my original intention, but that's the way things worked out, and honestly it felt good to come out ahead in a transaction with a dealer. ANY dealer.      

Just a random thought: See if those two examples are listed online and call the dealership and ask for the internet sales manager and make another offer?

My last purchase from a dealer was quoted 5k higher than the online price after the test drive. I pulled out my phone to show the salesman, and the ad was no longer there.
They agreed to sell it to me for the online price, and in writing up the deal, took another thousand off without me asking.

Honda dealer in DeLand, I've bought two cars there and have had good experiences.

John Welsh said:

In reply to porschenut :

You commented on how hard it was to find a used RAV4 Hybrid.  That's because it's one of the hottest items out there...and the dealership knows it too.  

That's what I'm hearing too.

We've been able to negotiate pretty significantly in the last year on two fairly new cars.

As you've stated and others have pointed out, I'm going to say it again. 

The Rav4 Hybrid is one of the HOTTEST vehicles on the market. 

The Prius is just as hot. Look at the Toyota website..  and you'll see that the only vehicle they don't offer incentives on? The Prius. 

If the Rav4 is competitively priced, then it will sell. 

Yes I know it is popular, which works against her.  Tried a CRV, corolla, hundai tucson and even a prius, all smaller and AWD, but she wants the RAV4.  As popular as they are I found 20 within 10 miles at dealers, priced under $25K and 5 more under 30.  Today a local dealer said they can work with her on pricing so I would not be surprised if the others we saw yesterday end up calling her in a few days.  

What I was really impressed with is her finances.  At 31 she and her husband own a house and she is doing her masters degree online.  Has close to 30K in the bank too!

John Welsh said:

In reply to porschenut :

You commented on how hard it was to find a used RAV4 Hybrid.  That's because it's one of the hottest items out there...and the dealership knows it too.  

ding ding ding! 

This is the answer. Plus tax season is about 30 days away. Most dealers are more than happy to sit on inventory for a few more weeks because a customer will walk in willing to pay full price pretty soon.

On one of the cars I bought, also last January, I pointed to the date on the Carfax, do you want to keep it another 120 days, or would you prefer to sell it today?

That really depends on the dealer. I've seen cars sit on lots over two years because they wanted their price.

So as an aside and was touched on early in this thread:

More and more I wish dealers would operate like other businesses; post a price and I can decide if I want to pay it.

The BS of all there add ons is just absurd. On my wife's previous purchase it was a small locally owned dealer. The short version is I simply asked the sales manager where his margin was, what it needed to be and we came to a deal in 5 minutes.

In reply to Tom1200 :

Exactly.  I spent a few decades in purchasing and was known as being pretty fair.  But when a salesman lies to me things turn bad quickly.  And when the salesman leaves us for progressively longer times to wear us down it just pisses me off more.  If either of these clowns pulled this on me at work I would have kicked them out.

rslifkin said:

A lot of people shopping for appliances hate bargaining and just want to know the price up front, so dealers have been heading more in that direction.  

I hope they get hit with stuff similar to this  Show me the price out the door.  Every deal its now a Doc fee, taxes, tags, etc. and it adds 1-2k to the price.  Its bullE36 M3.  

Its simple.  If its not an optional add on, roll it into the berkeleying price.

We have that here. The advertised price is the price, but it doesn't stop dealers trying to sell extras like they did to my son recently. I'm glad I was there, he's not really experienced enough to know, and probably would have paid way too much.

I wish I could remember the thread I posted it in, the difference between the car price and the financed price was ludicrous. Too many people don't know and get fleeced

TravisTheHuman said:

rslifkin said:

A lot of people shopping for appliances hate bargaining and just want to know the price up front, so dealers have been heading more in that direction.  

I hope they get hit with stuff similar to this  Show me the price out the door.  Every deal its now a Doc fee, taxes, tags, etc. and it adds 1-2k to the price.  Its bullE36 M3.  

Its simple.  If its not an optional add on, roll it into the berkeleying price.

Even the state of Massachusetts considers doc fees part of the price and taxes them as part of the sale price.