Is the E30 318is a NA Miata alternative?

I love my NA8 Miata track car. It is glorious and takes one hell of a beating as we all know they're capable of doing. I appreciate the low hp, high revving 4 banger and light weight chassis and as a BMW fanboy on the side, it got me thinking... did BMW also make this engine for the E30? I quickly found my answer in the form of the 318is. Or at least it sure appears that way on paper. --Forgive me if this has been a frequent topic in the past, I'm a newbie. -- Both the 318is and the NA8  Miata have a 1.8L 130ish hp engine and are in the low to mid 2000lbs range depending.

The Spec E30 is the easy button for a well setup car with that chassis but I haven't seen much on the 318 as an alternative. Probably due to its short production run. Who has experience with the M42 on track? is it a comparable experience to a Miata or apples to oranges?

These cars are still (relatively) affordable for a classic BMW if not in immaculate condition while Miata prices are quickly catching up to cars in that segment. Is now the time to build a 318is? 
 

I have the M42 in my E36.  I don't believe the E30 318is was that much lighter (I thought they were both 2600ish pounds), and my car  does just enough to stay in it's own way.

I chipped mine, and it makes a little difference, but not a lot.  And requires 91 octane, which hurts a little these days.

The Miata feels peppier by a piece, but I have an NB1, which I thought was 100lb lighter than the NB2 cars.  My car runs the MSM cam and the adjustable timing wheel, so equivalent to chipping the E36, but improvement for improvement, I think the Miata responds better.

If you're going to do an E30, I'd pick a six cylinder e car and chip it before I'd do a 318is.  I had a 325es, and those had a little higher rev limit than the standard e, and it was better to drive than the E36 is.

No track experience with any of them, though.

The 318is is a great little car but they weren't common when new, much less 30 years later.  Your biggest problem will be finding one.  

As far as that goes, don't discount the 325i or 325is - their M20 six cylinder engine is a gem.

The "real" 318is was a one-year-only model ('91), and they command top dollar nowadays. Irish44j just sold his "clone" project (early 318i with a transplanted M42), but something like that could be another option.

Check it out, we have a 318is in the fleet. 

And it made an appearance over at Classic Motorsports, too.

I might be able to chime in here. I spent a long time pretty much only driving miatas and at some point I decided I wanted to get a daily driver that was "like the miata". I settled on the E3o and ended up finding a gorgeous 325is. It was a rust free arizona car owned by an enthusiast with the late-model bumpers. Jackpot. Proceeded to throw the kitchen sink at it trying to get it to feel like the miata. It never came close. 

Everything about the miata just feels like it's designed for performance. Every control has crisp response, and the car as a whole has an intimate driver connection. I never felt that connection with the BMW. It was just a 25 year old luxury car (at the time) that felt like it was being pushed beyond its means. The engines have a weird magic but the rest of the car just felt like it never wanted to be pushed. Gearboxes are rubbery, steering was never that great even with the Z3 rack swap, the rear end felt twitchy, the brake pedal felt fine but the car just doesnt feel great under braking. It wasn't that it was a BAD drive but where the miata was a scalpel, the BMW was a butterknife.  It was fun and fast in its own right, and the cool factor couldn't be touched, but I was never able to get mine to have that ultra-nimble point-and-shoot feeling that a well setup miata does. 

In reply to toconn :

Agree, have had a 92 1.6l miata, stock with only a roll bar, brakes, and 15in wheels/tires for 12 years vs an 88 325is with e46 steering rack, brand new shocks and springs (stock replacement), short shifter, lightweight flywheel, and a ton of other minor junkyard family upgrades for 4 years and just sold, the miata feels like a go kart, the e30 felt like a fast lawn mower. IDK what it was, steering, revs, wheel and pedal response or placement. If anything E30 felt most closely like the TR4 or TR6s I've driven. The heavy clutch was close to C3 corvette. 

I am decidedly NOT a BMW fan, but the 1.8 4 cylinder is absolutely the weak sister of their entire line of engines.

I eventually gave up trying to find a crankshaft with an intact thrust surface.

If you want an e30, buy a 325.

In reply to Peanu_Keeyes :

What will you be using the car for?

The E21 feels more like a Miata in character, but it takes a bit of work to make it perform "close enough" to a Miata, and parts are getting harder to come by.

If anything wanted as a DD, I'd stay with something "more modern".

That said, here's mine.

I started my "high performance driving career" with a 318is about 25 years ago. My dad bought one new in 1991 and gifted it to me a couple of years later. They're listed as 2550 lbs, but that was without sunroof or air-con, which pretty much all of them had. So, a bit over 2600 lbs is more realistic.

With the right suspension, they can handle very well. Mine had the Turner Motorsports "J-Stock" setup: essentially a copy of factory Group N springs and custom-valved Bilstein Sports. I added basic camber plates (K-Mac) and more aggressive sway bars from Ireland Engineering to get the balance I was looking for. With 15x7" ET25 wheels (Team Dynamics ProRace 1), some 225/45/15" tires tucked perfectly into the arches and maxed out the grip without need for rolling fenders or anything. A better setup at the time was the Ground Control; today there are even more options.

For me, the stock M42B18 engine was a disappointment. It just didn't have "performance car" power delivery: you get a (little) slug of midrange torque, then the power tails off.  Very different from the tuned S14B23 in my E30 M3 that just rushes for the redline in every gear. After the timing case profile gasket let go for the second time and the engine overheated and warped the head, I ditched it in favor of an M20B25 (this was 20 years ago; M50 swaps weren't really a thing back then). I also got rid of the small-case diff, which kept breaking on track, and upgraded to a medium-case with 4.10:1 ratio. The car was a lot more enjoyable to drive on street and track with this setup. The extra weight over the nose wasn't even that bad; I don't think the M42B18 is particularly light for a "modern" 4-banger.

I enjoyed the handling of the car with the J-Stock setup. It was neutral and rotated easily. It's true the steering is a little slow and the shift kind of rubbery, as others have said. These are general E30 traits and don't bother me. The rear ended is always a little bouncy/fidgety on E30s, but you learn to manage that by being gentle on the transition from brakes to throttle and taking it easy on corner entry on bumpy tracks.

On the plus side, you have a great package for HPDE use. Plenty of room for a set of tires, some tools/spares, two people, and their luggage in the car. The visibility, seats, and ergonomics are fantastic. It's a very cool package. 

Alright, tons of great info here! Hmm... it seems like sticking with the Miata might be the better option after all. I am fairly tall and not getting younger so the ergonomics of the E30 definitely appeal to me but some of your personal accounts of the differences between the cars confirms my suspicions: Apples to Oranges
 

I was looking to make it mostly a track car, similar to my Miata in that it's still streetable. I drove the Miata back from southern NJ to CT last night in the rain on 200tw tires -- a reminder that a trailer would be in order if I want to take this hobby any more seriously. Also had a pretty serious spin out on turn 1 at NJMP Lightning track that could have easily jeopardized my returning in the car at all. So already living on the edge a bit for my blood. Someone passed me on 95 with a spec Miata on a trailer and I felt a pang of envy haha. Perhaps it's time to just go all in on a caged car. 

Yeah, if it's going to be mostly a track car, you're better off buying up an already caged spec miata or spec e30. This time of year you'll probably find someone getting out at the end of the season.

As much as I loved my 318is, I wouldn't have ever thought about it as a track car. Even with an intake, header, exhaust and tune (chip) it was "playful" at best as far as acceleration. 

It looked great lowered on GC Coilovers, with 17" SSRs and euro trim though.

I don't fit comfortably in a Miata at all...so I have E30s.  I've done some autocrossing in NA miatas and they're definitely better out of the box. I actually really like the steering and handling of my 318is, but it's taken a lot of fiddling to get right. There are fixes for everything and I never had complaints about the steering feel, but the shifter/transmissions do tend to be a bit less tight. 

The M42 is not a bad engine, but boost helps it a lot. Mine makes somewhere around 200 horsepower (matches or a hair slower than S52 E30s on straights), but it still doesn't rev like the sixes. I usually shift around 6200 unless I just need the overrev to make it to the next corner, where my 325is with an M20 is happy all the way up to the limiter. M42 parts are getting thinner on the ground, especially the E30-specific pieces. the only durability issues I had, I caused myself with amateur tuning mistakes. 

Skip around in the video, there's some other camera positions that show the gauges and what I'm doing and whatnot. 

I'll echo what others have said, having owned a stock E30 (325i) and a stock NA8. The Miata is just so much more precise, light footed, and frankly, fun. I love me some E30, but it's just never going to compare. I find the rear in the E30 to be nearly spooky, but mine was stock. 
 
My E36 M3 with suspension mods felt more in line with the sporty character of a Miata, but even that didn't have the steering and shifter the Miata had. Although it was much faster in every way.

I will say, I think an E30 is cooler looking. And that E21 above is hot!

Maybe this is BMW sacrilege, but E30s never did it for me. I have driven a few on the street and one on track, and the one on track was fun, if occasionally unsettling. I totally get why people love these, but for me, I'll take an E36.

The first race I ever did was with Champcar in a 318ti. The M44 in that was, uh, technically there. When I tell you an NA Miata feels faster....

In reply to Wizard_Of_Maz :

We had a 318ti as a project car back when they were new and, yeah, not exactly a scorcher. Fun on track, though. 

I used to drag race ours, too. I believe my best E.T. was a 17.0.

David S. Wallens said:

In reply to Wizard_Of_Maz :

We had a 318ti as a project car back when they were new and, yeah, not exactly a scorcher. Fun on track, though. 

I used to drag race ours, too. I believe my best E.T. was a 17.0.

My wife has an extremely nice stock 318is sitting in our garage.  People used to ask if it was for sale nearly every time she drove it.

It's a fun little car but so slow I sometimes wonder if something is wrong with it.