Learn Me E36 M3

E36 M3s are truly heavenly. But we all know that.

We are all begging to know about W126s and what they are about and what they can do and what you can do to one and with one.

David

In reply to D_Eclipse9916: My bad - typing late at night. We did the rear trailing arm reinforcement on my car.

yamaha wrote: In reply to Slippery: Or he bought a "M3" thats chassis wasn't an M3....

Or he bought a '95 or early model '96. Subframe reinforcements == 3/96+ IIRC.

Even still... they only fail if you let the bushings go bad then pound on it with the extra play yanking the piss out of the flooring with race tires. And then... you have to ignore it for a while.

Now... the oil pump nut falling off - that actually happens to more than one car in 10k so you should absolutely drop the oil pan and deform the thread so the nut can't back off ... and then baffle it up while you are in there. As soon as you go to real track rubber it will starve and tick like a sewing machine otherwise. You can just run a half a quart over - but that puts the crank in a bath and robs power.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Now... the oil pump nut falling off - that actually happens to more than one car in 10k so you should absolutely drop the oil pan and deform the thread so the nut can't back off ... and then baffle it up while you are in there. As soon as you go to real track rubber it will starve and tick like a sewing machine otherwise. You can just run a half a quart over - but that puts the crank in a bath and robs power.

Oh, yeah, it'll tick after you beat on it. Count on that. Mine did it with the Turner baffle kit and 15w50 Mobil 1. My E46 ZHP did it, too after autocross runs, though I never tracked it. Experienced BMW people have told me that it's nothing to worry about. It does go away pretty quickly.

Tom_Spangler wrote: Oh, yeah, it'll tick after you beat on it. Count on that. Mine did it with the Turner baffle kit and 15w50 Mobil 1. My E46 ZHP did it, too after autocross runs, though I never tracked it. Experienced BMW people have told me that it's nothing to worry about. It does go away pretty quickly.

It's lifters starving and I think it's more that the oil gets trapped in the head when you go flailing it around hard on sticky gumballs so there is less in pan - then slinging it up the side of the block really effects it.

I've never tested that but it seems more prevalent in situations where a sweeper follows a lot of churn.

An auto-triggered accusump might be the huckleberry... set to 5 psi or something. In any case - I put 40k track miles on an M3 with just a baffle and it never exploded. It just sounded like a sewing machine until the lifters got re-pressurized.

carbon wrote: After reading this thread, I'm all set with bmws.

Spread a negative image, please. I need someone to drive the cost down a little more.

Seriously, there are probably less than 1000 people in the entire country generating enough grip to see issues like that and most of us are clinically insane.

They are solid cars.

I think between that M3 and W126 Tommy posted...

I'd rather see him turn the W126 into a manual transmissioned hoonmobile/burner.

But i'd probably rather own the M3, because i don't feel like dealing with a manual trans swap on that W126.

E36 M3's are more trouble than they are worth, in my opinion. You can pick up a nice S2000 for what you'll pay in time/$$$ for an E36 M3.

If you do the W126, I demand a M119 6.0litre swap.

carbon wrote: After reading this thread, I'm all set with bmws.

You could say that about just about any "Learn me" thread on this board. Every car has it's issues. The nice thing about the ones the E36 M3 has is that they are well documented and cheap and easy to fix. Bimmerworld has extensive writeups on cooling system replacements, oil pump nuts, RTAB replacements, and anything else you'd ever need to do to one of those cars.

rotard wrote: E36 M3's are more trouble than they are worth, in my opinion. You can pick up a nice S2000 for what you'll pay in time/$$$ for an E36 M3.

And you won't have torque or a back seat. Different strokes and all that.

rotard wrote: E36 M3's are more trouble than they are worth, in my opinion. You can pick up a nice S2000 for what you'll pay in time/$$$ for an E36 M3.

Cross-shopped and cross-drove on track. If you like driving a kart, get the s2000 (in a good way). Nothing wrong with them, but they are twitchy, gut-less, sharp, drop-top fun. (also have oiling issues on track that is much harder to address, rip out front a-arms, blow up differentials etc.) Pick your warts. Street car? tough decision...

The m3 is more refined, torquey, heavier stock, actually narrower than an s2000, and are one of the most commonly tracked cars for a reason.

rotard wrote: E36 M3's are more trouble than they are worth, in my opinion. You can pick up a nice S2000 for what you'll pay in time/$$$ for an E36 M3.

I own both, for a track car I pick the M3. I also find them to have cheaper consumables.

Also no kidding the S2000 is wider. I was measuring both cars the other day and was amazed at how much wider the S2000 is!

Tom Suddard wrote:

Everything about this car looks right. Having owned 2 different e36 M3s, I would love another.

In reply to dyintorace:

Well, there is one thing wrong with that picture......it isn't a M3 sedan.

The fastest "cars" in our autox club, in no particular order since they trade FTD, are an E36 M3 sedan, a nationals prepped STC Civic, and a clone kart. I had no idea E36 M3 prices had come down that much. I've wanted either a sedan (to haul kids) or convertible (just cuz) for most of my adult life.

You have to own a E36 / E36 M3 at least once in your life. Seriously, be good to yourself.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

carbon wrote: After reading this thread, I'm all set with bmws.

Spread a negative image, please. I need someone to drive the cost down a little more. Seriously, there are probably less than 1000 people in the entire country generating enough grip to see issues like that and most of us are clinically insane. They are solid cars.

Everything he said.

The problem is, those 1000 people represent a significant portion of M3 ownership due to the low volume. And they're the vocal portion of M3 ownership. And racers tend to use up several cars so 1000 people may average out to 4000 cars...

yamaha wrote: In reply to dyintorace: Well, there is one thing wrong with that picture......it isn't a M3 sedan.

True...and I do love BMW sedans (see avatar), but, in the e36 era, I think the coupe was better looking.

In reply to carbon:

Patiently awaits a "What Car" thread by carbon......you will never own another car.....you might even give up on public transit due to unreliability.

carbon wrote: Each to their own, just seems like pulling the oil pan, replacing the cooling system, reinforcing poor chassis designs, and fighting phantom evap nightmares is a lot of work to make a car as good as it should have been from the factory. I always liked the concept of the m3, and the e36 is a good fit for me in terms of size appearance and price. Just would rather work on making a car faster, cooler than it was, instead of fighting bad engineering/ poor build quality. Like I said, scares me off, not necessarily you, that's fine, they still make me smile when I see them.

I put 50,000 miles on an E36 318ti. It was -the- most reliable car I have ever owned. All the issues mentioned are easy to fix and should not take more than a day or two of wrenching to accomplish everything you need for worry free hooliganism.

Many of the issues facing these cars today are the results of politics (recylable materials) and the number of kids who do not know how to maintain these fine cars. Things like the dreaded "money shift" are easy to avoid by simply replacing the engine and trans mounts (done in less than an afternoon in your driveway) This will also keep the overblown exploding fan issue down. The usual cause for that is the engine moving on it's mounts and hitting the shroud.

Windows are another non-issue. Simply clean out the old sticky grease on the tracks and slather on new greasy grease. No more broken windows.

As stated above, the M3 already has the rear subframe supports. It's chassis is significantly beefed up compared to the standard E36.

I loved my E36, I would still be driving it today if not for rust eating the passenger floor (due to bad accident repairs before I bought the car) it was simply one of the most intuitive cars you will ever get behind the wheel of. Even simple things like the hazard/fourway flashers is in a logical and easy to find spot (behind the shifter, just drop your hand to the console and push the button)

BMW is never one to follow trends. there is a reason they tend to set them. Like R&T or not, there is also a reason the 3 series has been -the- car to beat for the past 25 years

yamaha wrote: In reply to carbon: Patiently awaits a "What Car" thread by carbon......you will never own another car.....you might even give up on public transit due to unreliability.

You've seen his build thread, right? Coming from one of the best Toyota ever put out, i can certainly see how an E36 might be horrifying.

mad_machine wrote: Things like the dreaded "money shift" are easy to avoid by simply replacing the engine and trans mounts (done in less than an afternoon in your driveway) This will also keep the overblown exploding fan issue down. The usual cause for that is the engine moving on it's mounts and hitting the shroud.

That last one happens on all 3ers, E36, E46, and automatics. Because the motor mounts are borked.

Seriously, they might seem expensive but they're a lot cheaper than breaking other things.

carbon wrote: Each to their own, just seems like pulling the oil pan, replacing the cooling system, reinforcing poor chassis designs, and fighting phantom evap nightmares is a lot of work to make a car as good as it should have been from the factory. I always liked the concept of the m3, and the e36 is a good fit for me in terms of size appearance and price. Just would rather work on making a car faster, cooler than it was, instead of fighting bad engineering/ poor build quality. Like I said, scares me off, not necessarily you, that's fine, they still make me smile when I see them.

But to be fair, I've put over 100k miles on various E36's. 1) I'd much rather do the cooling system on an E36 than a timing belt on many cars 2)Never had an EVAP problem - I think Ian's experience is not the norm 3)The M3 has a reinforced chassis - non-issue

We LOVED our M3. We went on a 600 mile road trip in the 964 this week, and frankly, the M3 was probably a better car.

Nathan JansenvanDoorn wrote: But to be fair, I've put over 100k miles on various E36's. 1) I'd much rather do the cooling system on an E36 than a timing belt on many cars 2)Never had an EVAP problem - I think Ian's experience is not the norm 3)The M3 has a reinforced chassis - non-issue

Well, like I said, the car was sold back in 2004, but judging by the various discussions I was involved with on the forums, the EVAP issue with her car was not an isolated incident... It seemed to be an issue with a lot of cars from the 90's, but BMW's seemed especially prone. Apparently, one of the hidden lines or ports would crack, cause a slight leak and cause some sensor to not see readings it wanted to see. Back in 2004, I was >< close to spending the $1000 on a smoke machine in an attempt to trace it down.

More frustrating to her was the dealer response, which varied from "the gas cap is bad..." (which never fixed the issue) to "you must have filled the car with the engine running" (which she never did) and thus perpetuating her hatred of mechanics. But because the car was still fairly new and the emissions system still under warranty, they knew they'd never get reimbursed for the amount of time it would take to really fix it, so they kicked the can down the road... usually to the tune of ~$300...