Learn me F500

I set a goal about 10 years ago to run the Runoffs when it comes back to Mid-Ohio in a couple of years. I have been looking at the Production class, Formula Vee and the F500. The F500 sounds like a good class because the chassis and the 2 stroke engines are similar to what I race now in karting. I have also run a Rotax motor in karting. Information and events on F500 seems to be limited, although I have come across some good deals on F500, not sure how popular and if the F500 is non-competitive compared to the F600. What should I be looking for, what should I stay away from? Of course I am not modestly built guy at 6'2" 230lbs, so how realistic is it that I fit in one of these things.

In my region, they run the Formula Fords, Club Fords and F5/600's together. The only F500/600's that show up are both run by the same guy and they are the most miserable sounding things on the planet. Fast though. Damned fast.

I had thought that the F500's were regional only now as the F600 was the national class and all of the cars should be moving that direction? I could be wrong, I don't pay that much attention to that class.

I'd say just showing up regularly in one would get you close to running the runoffs though. If you can stand the noise and lack of suspension (think TAG Kart on steroids).

Where are you finding these good deals on F500s? I can never even find any for sale within 500 miles or so.

Go here: http://formula500.org/forum.php?sid=a2496d02bbcb9f97f7b2a402bba7d37c

Information, cars for sale, etc. Go to races, talk to the racers (they usually all paddock together). If you decide you want a car, they'll find one for you.

Sadly, as affordable and grassroots as F500 and F600 (which are really quite different) are, I've been shocked at how they are generally ignored by the Magazine.

I have a friend who races a F500. He chose the F500 because Spec Miata is a lot more expensive for a slower car.

F500 = leaf blower on steriods.

F600 = sounds like sex on four wheels.

I ran a F500 once. What a FUN car! No real information to provide other than "GO GET ONE" support...oh, and I was never more beat up in my life. My legs were bruised all over. Violent and oh so fun! They aren't as popular as they once were, and I don't understand that. I still remember watching the F440s race when the runoffs were still at Road Atlanta. There was nothing quite like seeing them come down the hill from under the bridge with 50 to 60 in a pack.

Looked at a couple F600 videos. Looks like a fun way to die. I need one.

Been researching for awhile...

I have no direct experience, this is only the impressions I have gotten from looking into it for a few years

The cars dont have a shock/spring, they basically run a canister that contains what is pretty much a bumpstop. This makes them not so much fun on rough courses from what I have read. (If your interested in hillclimb, might think other cars because of this)

If its got a 440 motor, its not worth messing with (unless autox only).

F600 will be much more expensive than F500, there are tons of F500s as they have been built since the 80's, but the F600's are a newer thing. Figure a running F500 for $6k-$15k and an F600 from $15k-$23k (those are very much from the hip numbers, and only meant to be a general idea) Generally, conversion from F5-F6 is going to about cost the difference anyways.

The frames can crack, inspect inspect inspect. Especially around where the motor mounts.

Biggest learning curve might be clutch tuning. Seems that it makes most of the difference.

Are you sure that F600 is the national class now? I thought F600 was the regional only, at least until it was off the ground. Havent kept the closest tabs for awhile. Either way, when I was, the F600 has individual inlet restrictors to keep parity with the F500 cars.

Is SOLO-2 (AX) of interest to you? FM is the class, and IIRC there are some minor front end changes that you make for it to work really well. Maybe also gear changes (final drive).

Do a LOT of reading on legality of rollbars, there are some that ARE NOT roadrace legal. (IIRC, look for something later then 1995ish to be somewhat sure, but RESEARCH IT) The ones with too small of a rollbar will basically have to be cut in half and rebuilt to be made roadrace legal, so they are basically autocross only cars (and dirt cheap, these are the $2k-ish cars).

Here are the usual haunts, I basically spent a good amount of time reading without joining.

http://www.formula500.org/forum.php

http://www.formula600racing.com

http://f500.us/

http://www.apexspeed.com/

Be warned, there is some infighting between some of the bike motor guys and some of the snowmobile guys, best not to step on that landmine.

Been thinking that its the way I want to go for awhile.

Lately been thinking about older formula fords as there are more places to run it and more people to run it against.

Paging JG, paging JG.

F500/600 has always been a guilty pleasure of mine. Jim Murphy—the dude who rents the badass E-Modified autocross Jeep—also rents F600s for club races, and the price is downright reasonable for an arrive-and-drive in the southeast. I'm seriously considering doing the ARRC in one this year if the scheduling works out.

From what I've seen, like most race cars, it's best to spend a few extra bucks up front for a legal, log booked car rather than try and navigate the minefield of trying to make a non-compliant car legal. But it still seems that $5-6k will get you a championship-capable F500 autocrosser.

Apexcarver wrote: Be warned, there is some infighting between some of the bike motor guys and some of the snowmobile guys, best not to step on that landmine.

Yup. My friend is firmly in the 2-stroke camp. He likes the simplicity - there's like 12 moving parts and an engine rebuilds are dirt cheap. The cars weigh nothing, so brakes and tires can last an entire season.

F5 seems to be popular in the snowbelt where replacement engines and clutch/CVT tuning knowledge are more common. F6 seems to be gaining in warm/MC climates.

I haven't kept up on the rules much either. Sportscar used to be my source of info at least on race attendance. Now I don't even get that anymore.

Got the text from the GCR about F6... there is no F6, they are all F500.

They allow both motors, but that being said...

GCR said: It is the purpose of this section to control the power level of current and future 4 cycle engines to yield approximately the same on track performance as the 2 strokes. Thus all engines must use indi - vidual inlet restrictors (IIRs) that comply with Appendix F, Flat Plate Intake Restrictor, except the third and fourth bullet items. The IIRs holes shall be as listed in table 1. The IIRs shall be placed between each cylinder throttle body and its corresponding inlet port. The CRB may at any time require adjustments to items including but not limited to restrictors, minimum weights and final drive ratios by publication in Fastrack

As far as fitting... there are some chassis that it seems there wouldnt be much of a problem, but some are a no-go at your height/weight. Gonna vary by car, but there are chances in the class.

No, F600 isn't National yet, but there's a dedicated group of guys running them and getting lots of attention. And the series has been invited to some pretty high-profile events this year as well.

As for fittment, from talking to Jim Murphy, the basic answer is there's chassis out there that can be made to fit basically anyone. Some lend themselves to tall and lanky drivers better, some are more fireplug-friendly, but there's basically a seat for every ass. I think the easy answer there is don't buy without at least a test fit or proof that whatever shape you possess will fit in the hole between the wheels.

And it's obviously much easier to make a large car fit a small person. My friend is relatively slight of build and uses one of those mold-to-fit formula car seat kits in his car. That seat fits him and nobody else. I'm only a bit taller and heavier and I couldn't sit in the car.

Oh yeah - and beside the roll bar diameter issue, one other problem with the old F440 cars that often makes them auto-x only is the foot box to front axle line is too far forward and doesn't meet current GCR safety requirements.

I met some of the F600 guys at the last SCCA weekend at Mid-Ohio last year. Very down-to-earth, cool guys, working hard to get F600 going. Most were old F500 guys and had lots of positive stuff to say about both, but the F600's sure do sound better! With the sportbike engines, they are probably the cheapest race cars that really sound like race cars, if that makes any sense.

F500 sounds more appealing to me because I am familiar with how easy a Rotax is to work on, I am not much of a motorcycle person, don't really care for them, so I think the F600, is out for me.

JG Pasterjak wrote: F500/600 has always been a guilty pleasure of mine. Jim Murphy—the dude who rents the badass E-Modified autocross Jeep—also rents F600s for club races, and the price is downright reasonable for an arrive-and-drive in the southeast. I'm seriously considering doing the ARRC in one this year if the scheduling works out. From what I've seen, like most race cars, it's best to spend a few extra bucks up front for a legal, log booked car rather than try and navigate the minefield of trying to make a non-compliant car legal. But it still seems that $5-6k will get you a championship-capable F500 autocrosser.

Jim used to have a very fast 440 back in the day. If I remember correctly, he hauled with an old '80's station wagon.

damn, the f600 race look like the closest thing to a 60s F1 car as you can get now.