I don't think I've really ever been able to get over a Saturn's looks. Also, maybe too ironic?
I like my Toyotas, too.
I don't think I've really ever been able to get over a Saturn's looks. Also, maybe too ironic?
I like my Toyotas, too.
This is very timely for me. My ice racer is a '94 Tercel. I was thinking of trying to find an LSD for it, but for just a bit more money I could do this swap.
The advantage of the Tercel up north is that they seem to be impervious to rust. My car has virtually none and that's common for this body style.
I had a '89 AE92 Wagon. I loved that little turd. It had a 4AF (carbed) with a 3-speed Auto. Sloooooooowww. But, it was fun to drive aggressively with. Pseudosport and Wibler remember it from college.
I so much wanted to do a Supercharged 4AGE swap with a 5-speed, but funds and parts were not available to me.
I was surprised how much difference just fuel injection made. My wife's friend had a '92 sedan with the 4AFE with a 5-speed and that thing scooted pretty damn good.
In reply to Swank Force One:
Surprisingly good looking. Hate those wheels though.
7afe bottom end paired with a small port 4age head, good combo? Close to a 20v? Plus: certainly cheaper. Downer: Just one throttle body?? Weak.
On an unrelated note: I just realized that I left my impact gun sitting in a car at the pic a part today. I am furious at myself.
RoughandReady wrote: Downer: Just one throttle body?? Weak.
That can be fixed.
Haha I found a picture of mine from college. One of the few. 
Interesting. Never heard of this, although I've never seen anyone running more stick than 225 A6s or 235 Hankook C?? in the rear. There are a number of issues the Saturn suffers from, but its interesting that you would jump to lateral links, where I've never seen or heard of one breaking.
BTW, the trailing links are solid.
I agree, tubular w/ threaded adjusters for the laterals would be nicer.
Kenny_McCormic wrote: In reply to ProDarwin: Having crawled under both, I'd expect the Corolla chassis to hold up a lot better and control the wheels more effectively under the loads of big sticky tires. Especially in the rear. Saturns have a habit of breaking their tubular trailing links, with stock soft rubber bushings and stock springs and shocks, and the lateral links are flimsy sheet metal U channel. Corolla has solid trialing links and tubular toe links with threaded toe adjusters. A Saturn is more or less a plastic bodied cheapened corolla knockoff.
Anyway, sorry for the off-topic. I vote just snag a good 20v and add a little boost.
Would adding Itbs to a 16v require an aftermarket ESM?
In reply to ProDarwin:
Boost? Aren't these sitting at 11:1 compression?
A 7age 20v or 16v is going to be a great deal of work, expense and a custom engine control for minimal HP gains over a 20v. I would even think that without going nuts on the head and cams (BIG $$$), a 7age 16v will probably do less than a stock 20v. Just swapping a black top into it with a factory ECU is a very good way to go. Still a PITA to wire up, but much simpler. The extra 200 CC of displacement will give you more, yeah, but try what you have with the stock 20v. I've run 2 of them (silvertops) and they are a fantastic motor. I just sold my megasquirteed AE92 20v a couple months ago. I think I put about 90K miles on it.
The factory ECU's are not tuneable by any means commonly available here. Adding ITB's or anything else is going to need a standalone ECU. You can boost an 11:1 motor, but you better know what you are doing. People put superchargers on 2zzge's and get 300+ HP, and they are 11:1. Lotus took a stock 2zzge crate motor, boosted it to 350 HP with a supercharger and went endurance racing with it, successfully. They never opened the motor, just bolted on the supercharger. They do happen to know a bit about engine tuning.
Dr. Hess wrote: . 1) A 7age 20v or 16v is going to be a great deal of work, expense and a custom engine control for minimal HP gains over a 20v. . 2) I would even think that without going nuts on the head and cams (BIG $$$), a 7age 16v will probably do less than a stock 20v. . 3) Just swapping a black top into it with a factory ECU is a very good way to go. Still a PITA to wire up, but much simpler. The extra 200 CC of displacement will give you more, yeah, but try what you have with the stock 20v. I've run 2 of them (silvertops) and they are a fantastic motor. I just sold my megasquirteed AE92 20v a couple months ago. I think I put about 90K miles on it. The factory ECU's are not tuneable by any means commonly available here. Adding ITB's or anything else is going to need a standalone ECU. You can boost an 11:1 motor, but you better know what you are doing. People put superchargers on 2zzge's and get 300+ HP, and they are 11:1. Lotus took a stock 2zzge crate motor, boosted it to 350 HP with a supercharger and went endurance racing with it, successfully. They never opened the motor, just bolted on the supercharger. They do happen to know a bit about engine tuning.
1 and 2 I disagree... 3 I totally agree
The factory management can be used... but you need a wideband to "tune it"... and you need mass patience as well (recent MR2 guy plants 146 whp on stock TVIS engine management)
finding any Corolla wagon is not an easy task... and there isn't a WHOLE lot of difference in the overall platforms(E9 and E10) You MIGHT find an All-Trac wagon(AE95), or find a unicorn like I did... an All-Trac sedan 
Sticking to the wagon... the All-Trac has the stoutest transmission of them all, because it is an "E" series transmission... not a "C"... BUT there is more driveline loss(mpg)....
another advantage to swapping an entire blacktop is you can find one with a 6 speed.... still a "C" transmission, but better gear spacing.
The toughest part, as I see it, would be properly integrating the engine/drivetrain harness into the cars general wiring. Because of this, when I rebuilt the engine in my AE95... I retained the 4AFE, and I built it with an aim to move the peak torque lower in the rpm band... I managed to move it down about 2100 rpm with just a manifold swap, engine machine work, and porting.
RoughandReady wrote: Downer: Just one throttle body?? Weak.
nothing weak about 146whp, 112#/ft.... I'm making blacktop power with a single T/B... in my "other" Corolla
In reply to ProDarwin:
Must be a salt belt thing and they're JUST strong enough if they don't get the slightest bit rusty.
Perhaps it was updated at some point or something but the one I saw break was a tube, with the threaded end that goes through the upright a welded in inert, end in the tube was cut off square, perfect stress riser, add in some light pitting and they snap off right there. Updating the bushing to something stiffer will increase the bending loads that they don't like.
Early 90s Corolla wagons seem to pop up rather often here. I don't want to boost an 11:1 engine, period. I don't know what I'm doing enough to jump into that, and my wallet wouldn't like me either.
The one lead I have on a black top is a $600 running/driving parts car with a Blacktop swapped in with a 5 speed. It's already wired up and everything. I posted it in the 2014 classifieds, which was probably a mistake. Can't get a hold of the seller, fearing it's gone gone gone.
Why would a 7a/16v hybrid be so much work? The bore is the same. Are the pistons different heights? I figured it was simply a matter of giving the 7a short block 4ag pistons. I also figured that a 200 cc difference wouldn't mean much to the EMS. I've seen guys mix and match Volvo 2.1 and 2.3 L engines, EMS's, and other parts all day long without much ill effect. I don't know too much, it just seems like that 200 cc wouldn't matter much to the ECU.
I will say that I'm bench racing while I stack up cash. Seems like the hardest part of a 20v swap is finding one in the American South. I don't want to drop $1500 at a "JDM" import/export place. I'm going to need something GRM priced, no matter what it is.
the key to why 7A engines don't work has more to do with cam timing, and deck height... the builders. All too often people just "throw" things together... it doesn't work like that with a 7AGE... for one, you need to KNOW TDC before you install the camshafts, and you need to make sure the deck height is tight. Proper machining, and proper cam timing and more power is easily available.
In reply to oldeskewltoy:
Okay, that's enough for me to go 20v shopping. I'm looking for something more: bolt up, wire up, go go go. Oversimplification, of course, bu you get what I mean. The appeal of a 20v really is that it's a 5 valve engine with ITBs from the factory. That's just so cool.
In reply to oldeskewltoy:
Okay, that's enough for me to go 20v shopping. I'm looking for something more: bolt up, wire up, go go go. Oversimplification, of course, bu you get what I mean. The appeal of a 20v really is that it's a 5 valve engine with ITBs from the factory. That's just so cool.
Were is Gameboy? I'd figure he'd be all over this one.
Build it quickly. First local autocross is March 26.
Autocross Schedule for 2014
WNC Agricultural Center in Fletcher, NC
March 26
April 2
April 23
May 21
June 4
July 9
August 6
August 20
October 8
October 15
Hey OST, somewhat off topic, but what are people doing engine management wise with swaps involving 97-up OBDII systems? My next insane project is Project 3SGTE RAV4, and I'm looking for a 96-2000 AWD manual RAV4 within a day's drive of 72712 if anyone knows of one.
Appleseed wrote: Were is Gameboy? I'd figure he'd be all over this one.
D'oh yeah I was busy on the weekend.
There are a few good suspension options out there for AE9x/AE10x/AE11x Corollas, luckily they used the same struts on the Corolla for over a decade.
Some JDM Corolla wagons came with 20v engines, the G-touring, BZ-touring and Z-touring wagons IIRC.
Suspension is just so-so...you can make them corner very well if you use very hard suspension and don't lower it too much, but stock geometry is not great. It's very sturdy though, there's nothing fragile on a '90s Corolla, except maybe the engine mounts. Urethane-fill those, and I'd recommend and engine damper too.
A blacktop head on a 7A block will run when bolted together but getting the timing right is tricky, and you'll have to use a different belt, IIRC a Porsche belt is the most popular option. Still I'd recommend aftermarket EMS if you're going to do this.
20v parts are harder to find, and there isn't as much tuning potential with a 20v as a 16v...just be aware.
Lots of people tune these in the Caribbean and Australasia - a lot of the aftermarket parts come from Australasia and aren't cheap though (sway bar & bushing stuff from Whiteline & SuperPro, chassis bracing from Ultra Racing are some I can think of off the top of my head). I've only got one part from there so far.
Wait.... the Corolla AllTrac had an E-series trans? That's surprising. I knew the Camry AllTrac did, though a very weak version, compared to the Celica units.
Some of the AE92 GTZs came with E-series transaxles as well. C52 gearboxes are seriously tough though.
Cool. There will be autocross on my birthday.
Okay, who is going to sell me a 20v?
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