Learn me Jaguar XJS

Trustyvw said:

Is it possible that it could be a 350 Chevy engine with a T5 transmission?  I know there are a lot of Jags with small block Chevy engines.

I doubt it’s a Chevy conversion. My personal prejudice aside there are no signs of a conversion.   The easy solution is pop the hood and look. 

rustyvw said:

Is it possible that it could be a 350 Chevy engine with a T5 transmission?  I know there are a lot of Jags with small block Chevy engines.

Flame away but that would be a positive in my opinion 

In reply to A 401 CJ :

Please look up the horsepower and Torque of a 1975 Corvette and compare it to the horsepower of a 1975 Jaguar XJS. 

Oops it’s less!   Hmm check again in 1976,77,7&,79,80,81,82 , 83, 84, 85, Yawn,  get the point?  

Be honest,  cars of that period were hampered with pollution controls as engineers struggle to make clean power.  So the idea that somehow Jaguar was inferior to Chevy just  isn’t valid.  

The swappers put less horsepower and torque into a heavy  Luxury car, and few were able to improve its performance or even get it running reliably.  

A far more valid comparison would be swapping a Chevy V8 into a series 3 Jaguar XKE.  At least the XKE is a two seat sports car not a heavy 4 seat luxury car. 

When the Corvettes competed against the XKE V12 they lost!   SCCA National Run offs. In spite of decades of development of the Corvette compared to only one year for the Jaguar XKEV12 ,  and only 326 cu in. Compared to Corvettes 350, Jaguar showed it’s tail to Corvette!  

Now I like my Chevy pickup with it’s 350 V8  but there are valid reasons why Ferrari, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Aston Martin,  don’t use pushrods.  

The same reason the world doesn’t build flatheads any more.,  

frenchyd said:

In reply to A 401 CJ :

Please look up the horsepower and Torque of a 1975 Corvette and compare it to the horsepower of a 1975 Jaguar XJS. 

Oops it’s less!   Hmm check again in 1976,77,7&,79,80,81,82 , 83, 84, 85, Yawn,  get the point?  

Be honest,  cars of that period were hampered with pollution controls as engineers struggle to make clean power.  So the idea that somehow Jaguar was inferior to Chevy just  isn’t valid.  

The swappers put less horsepower and torque into a heavy  Luxury car, and few were able to improve its performance or even get it running reliably.  

A far more valid comparison would be swapping a Chevy V8 into a series 3 Jaguar XKE.  At least the XKE is a two seat sports car not a heavy 4 seat luxury car. 

When the Corvettes competed against the XKE V12 they lost!   SCCA National Run offs. In spite of decades of development of the Corvette compared to only one year for the Jaguar XKEV12 ,  and only 326 cu in. Compared to Corvettes 350, Jaguar showed it’s tail to Corvette!  

Now I like my Chevy pickup with it’s 350 V8  but there are valid reasons why Ferrari, Mercedes Benz, BMW, Aston Martin,  don’t use pushrods.  

The same reason the world doesn’t build flatheads any more.,  

Point well taken.  When I look for an SBC for my projects, I always try to hunt down a ‘75 Corvette.  :-)

I'd think about a 1971 Corvette engine to swap​​​​ in, myself...or a 2014.

Now a manual with a V12 swap would be worth some drifts. Lister Lemans anyone?

If I were to do a swap, it would be a BMW V12 with full aftermarket fuel injection. Having said that, I wouldn't swap out the Jag engine, but I would rip out the factory injection and replace it with something newer, more reliable, and tunable

A 401 CJ said:

rustyvw said:

Is it possible that it could be a 350 Chevy engine with a T5 transmission?  I know there are a lot of Jags with small block Chevy engines.

Flame away but that would be a positive in my opinion 

I agree, i wouldnt see this as a downside

Good news.....It’s a original jaguar 3.6 engine with a manual. Vin # confirms it

Bad news....she wants $10k for it

Apparently, Daddy said it all the time to her that it was a rare car because of the manual. Good grief. 

mad_machine said:

If I were to do a swap, it would be a BMW V12 with full aftermarket fuel injection. Having said that, I wouldn't swap out the Jag engine, but I would rip out the factory injection and replace it with something newer, more reliable, and tunable

Now that makes sense!  In fact I plan on doing something just like that on my race car.  

Here’s my thinking.  Jaguar sold the right to and machines to make their AJ6 to GM in payment of the debt Jaguar owed for all those transmissions Jaguar used. 

GM modified that engine and called it the Atlas series. Then put it in their mid sized SUV’s like Trail Blazer, Envoy, etc. 

But the good news is they kept the cylinder spacing etc the same. But switched to Delco  fuel injection stuff instead of Lucas.  

Going way back to the development of the AJ6 engine Jaguar had used the bore spacing of the V12  to design the AJ6. In fact you can almost put the  4 valve heads on a V12,  the factory modified a few heads and tried it but found it didn’t increase the power by any significant percentage.  

I digress,  I can go to a junkyard and pick up good used fuel injection parts that will fit on the V12.  A lot of still good engines wind up in the junkyard because the transmission GM stuck behind that powerful Torquey six cylinder won’t hold up to its 290 horsepower! 

  So Delco injectors, 2 Trailblazer fuel rails and a mega squirt, problem solved!    If you want to control the spark too either use the 6.0 liter engine  of grab the ignition system off the 6.0 engine ( it’s mostly Ford stuff ). 

frenchyd said:

mad_machine said:

If I were to do a swap, it would be a BMW V12 with full aftermarket fuel injection. Having said that, I wouldn't swap out the Jag engine, but I would rip out the factory injection and replace it with something newer, more reliable, and tunable

Now that makes sense!  In fact I plan on doing something just like that on my race car.  

Here’s my thinking.  Jaguar sold the right to and machines to make their AJ6 to GM in payment of the debt Jaguar owed for all those transmissions Jaguar used. 

GM modified that engine and called it the Atlas series. Then put it in their mid sized SUV’s like Trail Blazer, Envoy, etc. 

But the good news is they kept the cylinder spacing etc the same. But switched to Delco  fuel injection stuff instead of Lucas.  

Going way back to the development of the AJ6 engine Jaguar had used the bore spacing of the V12  to design the AJ6. In fact you can almost put the  4 valve heads on a V12,  the factory modified a few heads and tried it but found it didn’t increase the power by any significant percentage.  

I digress,  I can go to a junkyard and pick up good used fuel injection parts that will fit on the V12.  A lot of still good engines wind up in the junkyard because the transmission GM stuck behind that powerful Torquey six cylinder won’t hold up to its 290 horsepower! 

  So Delco injectors, 2 Trailblazer fuel rails and a mega squirt, problem solved!    If you want to control the spark too either use the 6.0 liter engine  of grab the ignition system off the 6.0 engine ( it’s mostly Ford stuff ). 

Nowhere can I find the Atlas inline 6 being an evolution or child of the Jag 4.2 inline 6. You make this claim so often but never with any proof. Next time you should caveat with "THIS IS MY OPINION". If it is indeed true, please show me your source I'd love to learn more about that. 

Your knowledge of the XJS and Jaguar v12 is indeed vast and useful but you tend to add in your own opinions as facts and sometimes I'm not sure if you just make some things up in your post. 

Sine_Qua_Non said:

Good news.....It’s a original jaguar 3.6 engine with a manual. Vin # confirms it

 

Bad news....she wants $10k for it

Apparently, Daddy said it all the time to her that it was a rare car because of the manual. Good grief. 

Ahh the xjs. No other classic car always has 16 similar examples for sale on any CL with some asking 10k and others $800 quite like the xjs does.

Sine_Qua_Non said:

Good news.....It’s a original jaguar 3.6 engine with a manual. Vin # confirms it

 

Bad news....she wants $10k for it

Apparently, Daddy said it all the time to her that it was a rare car because of the manual. Good grief. 

Sweet baby jesus, i was worried about that. I was looking at an jag recently that the guy wanted $1495 for an xjr. Contacted him....price nearly doubled.

I dont know what it is about jags that make people think they are gold plated

In reply to Antihero :

I'll sell you mine for 1495 x 4 

yupididit said:

frenchyd said:

mad_machine said:

If I were to do a swap, it would be a BMW V12 with full aftermarket fuel injection. Having said that, I wouldn't swap out the Jag engine, but I would rip out the factory injection and replace it with something newer, more reliable, and tunable

Now that makes sense!  In fact I plan on doing something just like that on my race car.  

Here’s my thinking.  Jaguar sold the right to and machines to make their AJ6 to GM in payment of the debt Jaguar owed for all those transmissions Jaguar used. 

GM modified that engine and called it the Atlas series. Then put it in their mid sized SUV’s like Trail Blazer, Envoy, etc. 

But the good news is they kept the cylinder spacing etc the same. But switched to Delco  fuel injection stuff instead of Lucas.  

Going way back to the development of the AJ6 engine Jaguar had used the bore spacing of the V12  to design the AJ6. In fact you can almost put the  4 valve heads on a V12,  the factory modified a few heads and tried it but found it didn’t increase the power by any significant percentage.  

I digress,  I can go to a junkyard and pick up good used fuel injection parts that will fit on the V12.  A lot of still good engines wind up in the junkyard because the transmission GM stuck behind that powerful Torquey six cylinder won’t hold up to its 290 horsepower! 

  So Delco injectors, 2 Trailblazer fuel rails and a mega squirt, problem solved!    If you want to control the spark too either use the 6.0 liter engine  of grab the ignition system off the 6.0 engine ( it’s mostly Ford stuff ). 

Nowhere can I find the Atlas inline 6 being an evolution or child of the Jag 4.2 inline 6. You make this claim so often but never with any proof. Next time you should caveat with "THIS IS MY OPINION". If it is indeed true, please show me your source I'd love to learn more about that. 

Your knowledge of the XJS and Jaguar v12 is indeed vast and useful but you tend to add in your own opinions as facts and sometimes I'm not sure if you just make some things up in your post. 

You keep getting confused. There is nothing in common between the Jaguar 4.2 designed during WW 2  with a 4.17 stroke  Using a cast Iron Block.  That  engine was based off the Standard ( name brand  Standard ) engine  that all previous SS cars used.  ( the original name of Jaguar cars prior to WW2  was SS cars)  

And the AJ6 engine. Nothing.  The AJ6 is all aluminum has 4 valves per cylinder  shorter stroke different bore spacing etc.  However the AJ6 was designed after theV12.   

My source of that goes back to the late 1990’s when Jaguar deeply in debt to GM and others offered to sell themselves to GM. 

GM did due diligence to assess  Jaguar’s Value. Found a really obsolete factory with horribly outdated equipment. The only thing they found of value was the AJ6 engine. 

Meanwhile Ford who had been on a world wide acquisition hunt heard about  Jaguar being on the market and made a spur of the moment blind offer to “steal” Jaguar away from GM. And got it minus the AJ6 engine and machinery.  

Those are facts. Reported in trade journals of the time.  Do not confuse the Iron block 4.2 with the all aluminum GM modified AJ6 engine which wound up at 4.2 

In reply to frenchyd :

Oh my bad, I typed 4.2 instead of 4.0. 

Anyway.

So.......Again, where's your source that GM created the Atlas from the Jaguar AJ6? 

In reply to yupididit :

If you really want to find that start researching older ( about late 1990’s trade publications). One of them did a nice story on that subject. 

Selling engine designs and equipment isn’t unusual  the Rover V8 came from GM. Ford sold their Flathead to France, etc etc 

Since they’ve stopped selling that engine you can no longer go to the factory and see the actual equipment in use, however you could  research the basic parameters of each engine and find the commonality. 

ebonyandivory said:

Come up with a price you want to pay for a TOTALLY unknown project car and throw it down.

Worst they can say is no. Then if they’re asking unreasonable money due to EBay inflation and consequently its still for sale next year, buy it for less than your current offer.

Exactly.  They came to you.  I suspect they are going to come back with a BJ price.  

EDIT: well i see I was right.  Tell this girl that to get anywhere near that price this car will need to be running like a boss!  And nobody is going to want a 3.6.  Rare doesn't always mean valuable.       

frenchyd said:

In reply to yupididit :

If you really want to find that start researching older ( about late 1990’s trade publications). One of them did a nice story on that subject. 

Selling engine designs and equipment isn’t unusual  the Rover V8 came from GM. Ford sold their Flathead to France, etc etc 

Since they’ve stopped selling that engine you can no longer go to the factory and see the actual equipment in use, however you could  research the basic parameters of each engine and find the commonality. 

I spent the better part of 1/2 day at work researching this "connection" between the Atlas and the AJ-6 and could find nothing on it.  The Rover connection to the BOP engine is well documented.       

yupididit said:

In reply to frenchyd :

 

Oh my bad, I typed 4.2 instead of 4.0. 

Anyway.

So.......Again, where's your source that GM created the Atlas from the Jaguar AJ6? 

If you want one that runs no matter what you  could always swap an I6 out of an XJ into it.  A Jeep XJ.  :-)

just kidding frenchyd.  Seriously...Just Kidding! 

In reply to spitfirebill :

I’m sorry the article was in a trade magazine I picked   up at a private airport waiting room.  I read it because

1 I was bored waiting for the people I was flying down to to buy cranes. 

2 It was about Ford buying Jaguar which in a very Tiny way* I had a little involvement.  

3. I’ve followed Jaguar like most people follow a sports team.

* In 1986 I was in the Grand Bahama’s Vintage GP. In my class were three cars that affected the outcome of Ford buying Aston Martin.  And subsequently Jaguar .  

Myself in the BlackJack Special 

Sir Sterling Moss driving the factory prepared Aston Martin DBR2 

Steve Kline driving the Chevy powered Echidna 

Anyway I did very well in the concours  and actually beat Sir Sterling Moss in the autocross.  After the first race Steve Kline beat Sir Sterling Moss ( I came in 3rd )   In subsequent races I was either 2nd or Third, I digress.  

But Henry Ford was there along with some of his board members, they were looking to buy Aston Martin.  From the Greek who owned it at the time. ( (I won’t even try to spell his name)  

Anyway the Greek was overheard telling Sir Sterling Moss  that he’d darn well better beat the “Corvette”  referring to the Echidna 

Moss did in the final race but it was a heck**of a wonderful race to watch from third, then second place.   

Stirling Jumped the start and blocked Kline into the first corner, ( payback for an earlier start where Kline had done the same to him)   And try as he could Kline couldn’t   Get back around him.  

Kline was ruthless on his equipment.  That week he’d blown up 2 motors and paid a really silly price for a third. Two transmissions and one rear end. 

At the awards ceremony In his acceptance speech Sir Sterling Moss basically repeated what the Greek had told him.  

I won second place and  Kline took third  but to be fair the BlackJack Special was far better at the autocross than the Aston Martin was.  I was much narrower and had an 88 inch wheelbase compared to the DBR2’s 106”  Finally with my quick change I was geared perfectly where Sir Sterling Moss had to shift at three different places on the coarse.  

The rest of the races I was massively out powered, forcing  me to drive on the ragged edge of control just to keep them ( Moss & Kline) in sight 

spitfirebill said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to yupididit :

If you really want to find that start researching older ( about late 1990’s trade publications). One of them did a nice story on that subject. 

Selling engine designs and equipment isn’t unusual  the Rover V8 came from GM. Ford sold their Flathead to France, etc etc 

Since they’ve stopped selling that engine you can no longer go to the factory and see the actual equipment in use, however you could  research the basic parameters of each engine and find the commonality. 

I spent the better part of 1/2 day at work researching this "connection" between the Atlas and the AJ-6 and could find nothing on it.  The Rover connection to the BOP engine is well documented.       

That's because it isn't true. 

In reply to yupididit :

I spent less than 3 minutes and found at least a partial confirmation of my statement. Try Automotive news about how Ford Bought Jaguar. It’s not the article I read but confirms the basic story. 

I’ll find further confirmation  between runs this afternoon

frenchyd said:

In reply to yupididit :

I spent less than 3 minutes and found at least a partial confirmation of my statement. Try Automotive news about how Ford Bought Jaguar. It’s not the article I read but confirms the basic story. 

I’ll find further confirmation  between runs this afternoon

 If you're talking about this article, um no. I already know how Ford acquired Jaguar. That can be found anywhere. 

Im asking for the source that states that the GM Atlas engines were derived from the Jaguar AJ6 engines. 

frenchyd said:

In reply to yupididit :

I spent less than 3 minutes and found at least a partial confirmation of my statement. Try Automotive news about how Ford Bought Jaguar. It’s not the article I read but confirms the basic story. 

I’ll find further confirmation  between runs this afternoon

You said GM bought the rights and machinery to build the AJ6, yet Ford continued to use it as the AJ16 until the V8 was ready.  Google also said the Atlas was one of only 3 clean sheet newly designed engines they made.  Which I tend to disagree with.