learn me - Karting

Never thought I would have the chance to really get into karting. Then a few months ago my dad has his hip replaced, and he asks the dr if he will be able to get into his s2000. They talk, turns out the surgeon and some of his buddies have built this, 20 miles outside of my town.

1 mile kart track!!! holy hell yes!!! Then I find out they run it as a private club, costs 10k to join. Well, so much for that.

Then my dad goes in for a checkup and asks about the track, and finds out they are having lots of drainage issues. Track is settling creating tons of birdbaths on the track, and the infield doesn't drain at all. Since this is what I do, my dad volunteered me to look at it. So now it looks like I may swap my work to design a fix for these issues for a membership.

So learn me about karts, I went out Saturday, they have 80 cc kids karts, and then single speed adult (dont' know the engine size) and 6 speed shifters that the adults run.

Where do you buy these? how much do they run new/used. they also said a big cost is tires, they say they go through a set of hard compounds every 50 laps (50 miles) is this normal? I watched two of them drive and I swear they think it's a drift event!

Hi Luke. Karts are a great way to do real-live wheel-to-wheel without breaking the bank. As a newbie, I'd start with a single-speed kart to learn the basics without spending a lot of cash on a finicky, high-maintenance-but-high-speed shifter Kart. You may even want to go with a 4-stroke like a Briggs LO206-powered one. What's great about them is that they're a spec motor that you can race with a level playing field, as opposed to getting into a pricey arms-race class. But it seems that these things are very regional. For instance the Yamaha KT100 is a dying class in much of the country, whereas there's still pockets where it's popular.

The track that you show looks like it's very high-speed oriented however, and it might get boring if you don't have a kart equipped to take advantage of that. You should do your homework, and figure out what the best choices are for your region, not just a single track.

Where I live you can always get used tires for a song. In fact the Skip Barber school at Sears point regularly gives away piles of tires for free. Most tracks sell anuall memberships that allow unlimited use around $30/month. Hard to beat that!

btw - if it looks like they're drifting their Karts a bunch, they're either hooning or aren't that fast.

The single speed adult karts can be 2 stroke or 4. The 2 strokes are based on dirt bike engines and are usually 100-125cc, both single speed and shifter. The 6 speed shifters are usually 125cc dirt bike engines with transmissions. The 4 strokes are likely a B&S "log splitter" engines, but there is also a Honda Gx200 that has spawned a ton of clones in 196cc or 212cc (Harbor Freight Predator). Bobs4cycle.com (good 4 stroke engine site) and ekartingnews.com (all things kart racing) will get you up to speed. Generally speaking it's best to go try out a bunch of karts before buying them. The 4 strokes have a cheaper buy in and can be cheaper to maintain over the 2 strokes. I built my 4 stroke karts for about $500 each but had a Rotax shifter that was $1500; it needed a top end rebuild and was no longer competitive for it's class. A used, 6 speed 125 shifter, with spares, will be $2k-$3k and there are tons of used karts out there. New they can be $5k plus. 50 laps in a kart is a lot! I'm sore after 6 autox runs. Tires are $200-$300 a set for new but take offs show up on eBay all the time.

100 yrs. ago when karting first became popular, it was possible to run the same tires a whole season and still be good.

Ah, progress

Autoblog had an Intro to Karting 7 part series a few years back that was very good.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/05/introduction-to-karting-part-1/

Talk to the folks at the track - find out what they're running. There are a lot of different classes, and not all tracks run all kinds of karts. Find a class that fits and is popular, and jump in. It's hard to find cheaper track time.

iceracer wrote: 100 yrs. ago when karting first became popular, it was possible to run the same tires a whole season and still be good. Ah, progress

Yes, but you also had to walk to school in the snow. Uphill. Both ways.

I'd find out what's being raced locally and run that. I've driven a few different karts on loan from various people. There's a popular TAG series around here, but the track owners are pushing the L0206 spec series. They claim the tires are hard enough to last for a long time, so consumables are very low. The kart was definitely a momentum one, but the 4-stroke had more torque than some of the 2-stroke Hondas I've tried. $4k for a new one, including the sealed motor. I'm considering it.

When I started out my karting career, I mistakenly started with the fastest and most expensive kart running Tag then I went to Kt100, and finally I found my niche for 4 years running 4cycle. I think that 4cycle is the best avenue for beginners, because it takes pump gas, fairly inexpensive and easy to run. I would stay away from clones and the harbor freight, because upfront they are cheap but they break easily, I would recommend going the Briggs & Stratton route either the 206 or Animal (I have one for sale http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/open-classifieds/fs-2011-arrow-warrior-kart-with-briggs-and-stratton-l0206/91278/page1/). On chassis choice, if you can buy new or gently used I would recommend it. Some used karts are beat, and will take away from the enjoyment especially if they have been involved in an accident and/or no longer in production. You may spend the same amount money fixing a used kart then buying new or gently used(racing is a money pit). Personally I prefer metric karts, because most people run them at sprint tracks and parts are transferable between the different chassis, although there are a few American Chassis such as Margay they have both Standard and Metric parts. In 4cycle I never paid for a tire because we were only allowed to run used so I just got the throw away tires from the tag guys. Usually I could get a year out of used set. Also a Kart can be put in the back of a truck or a small trailer that any car can pull.

BTW, one thing about the 206 spec carts - they use smaller chassis tubes than the Tag karts do. Unfortunately, this means you can't step up to the faster series with the same chassis. This is based on CRG karts, dunno about others.

trigun7469 wrote: When I started out my karting career, I mistakenly started with the fastest and most expensive kart running Tag then I went to Kt100, and finally I found my niche for 4 years running 4cycle. I think that 4cycle is the best avenue for beginners, because it takes pump gas, fairly inexpensive and easy to run. I would stay away from clones and the harbor freight, because upfront they are cheap but they break easily, I would recommend going the Briggs & Stratton route either the 206 or Animal (I have one for sale http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/open-classifieds/fs-2011-arrow-warrior-kart-with-briggs-and-stratton-l0206/91278/page1/). On chassis choice, if you can buy new or gently used I would recommend it. Some used karts are beat, and will take away from the enjoyment especially if they have been involved in an accident and/or no longer in production. You may spend the same amount money fixing a used kart then buying new or gently used(racing is a money pit). Personally I prefer metric karts, because most people run them at sprint tracks and parts are transferable between the different chassis, although there are a few American Chassis such as Margay they have both Standard and Metric parts. In 4cycle I never paid for a tire because we were only allowed to run used so I just got the throw away tires from the tag guys. Usually I could get a year out of used set. Also a Kart can be put in the back of a truck or a small trailer that any car can pull.

I've heard lots of people recommend starting with 4 cycle stuff, but I started my karting "career" three years ago in TaG and I couldn't be happier. I like TaG because with an electric kart lift I can pretty much be a one man band at the track.

I do like the concept of the LO206, I just wish it had a bit more power.

Cool looking track. Where is it located? Near Amarillo? Does it have a name?

At $10k/year, it does sounds more like a place for a bunch of rich guys to play rather than a place where they want to attract the normal karter. Unless, of course, it's a business type track with workers in place all the time, a full shop, kart storage and help with kart maintenance. The Houston track we go to has a $400/year membership, but it's member owned. Often times, my son and I are the only ones there. There is a big track in Dallas, however, that runs rentals, has a full shop and parts (from nuts and bolts, to complete racing packages), onsite equipment (tire machine, frame straightener), track workers and full time mechanics. It's much more expensive, but I don't think it's that much.

If it is in Amarillo, I would say to buy/rent whatever they run there. The advice above and what I always tell people is to buy whatever everyone else in your area runs. It's no fun showing up with a motor that you're the only one in the class (they'll still allow you to race with others) and you never know how to compare your lap times. Since Amarillo is pretty far from any other sprint tracks (as opposed to circle/oval/dirt tracks), you'll probably just run it there.

Given that, I don't recommend jumping into a shifter first. Not only is it MUCH more complicated to work on and more expensive to fix, it's also more physically demanding and doesn't teach driving skill as well. I'd run one of their single speed (TAG/Rotax) karts instead. Find out if you can rent them or if the entry fee includes use of a rental kart.

Again, I agree with the above, if they're drifting then they either don't know how to drive or don't take the racing side very seriously. 50 laps on a set of "hard compound" tires is true if they're just wasting them like that. On a medium set, my son will get 2-3 practice weekends in before we're changing them. He averages 100 laps a day on a 3/4 mile track. So, 300-400 miles?

From reading about the drainage problems though, it might have just been thrown together and the track itself is really rough asphalt and just tearing them up.

Good luck.

-Rob

Box_of_Rocks wrote:

trigun7469 wrote: When I started out my karting career, I mistakenly started with the fastest and most expensive kart running Tag then I went to Kt100, and finally I found my niche for 4 years running 4cycle. I think that 4cycle is the best avenue for beginners, because it takes pump gas, fairly inexpensive and easy to run. I would stay away from clones and the harbor freight, because upfront they are cheap but they break easily, I would recommend going the Briggs & Stratton route either the 206 or Animal (I have one for sale http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/open-classifieds/fs-2011-arrow-warrior-kart-with-briggs-and-stratton-l0206/91278/page1/). On chassis choice, if you can buy new or gently used I would recommend it. Some used karts are beat, and will take away from the enjoyment especially if they have been involved in an accident and/or no longer in production. You may spend the same amount money fixing a used kart then buying new or gently used(racing is a money pit). Personally I prefer metric karts, because most people run them at sprint tracks and parts are transferable between the different chassis, although there are a few American Chassis such as Margay they have both Standard and Metric parts. In 4cycle I never paid for a tire because we were only allowed to run used so I just got the throw away tires from the tag guys. Usually I could get a year out of used set. Also a Kart can be put in the back of a truck or a small trailer that any car can pull.

I've heard lots of people recommend starting with 4 cycle stuff, but I started my karting "career" three years ago in TaG and I couldn't be happier. I like TaG because with an electric kart lift I can pretty much be a one man band at the track. I do like the concept of the LO206, I just wish it had a bit more power.

I run at PRK and most people jump into a kart are exhausted after one lap (it is big for a kart track), so Tag can be intimidating especially since at that time I was racing most of the people who were national winners and I really didn't have a clue what I was doing. 4cycle is one person start just pull the cord and go. Although it might not be fast if you are racing 15-20 people it is a blast, so like what is said above find the popular class and go for it or try and rally people to buy into a engine you like. I have noticed that my driving has improved and when I do a occasional chumpcar race I know that karting has helped.

trigun7469 wrote:

Box_of_Rocks wrote:

trigun7469 wrote: When I started out my karting career, I mistakenly started with the fastest and most expensive kart running Tag then I went to Kt100, and finally I found my niche for 4 years running 4cycle. I think that 4cycle is the best avenue for beginners, because it takes pump gas, fairly inexpensive and easy to run. I would stay away from clones and the harbor freight, because upfront they are cheap but they break easily, I would recommend going the Briggs & Stratton route either the 206 or Animal (I have one for sale http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/open-classifieds/fs-2011-arrow-warrior-kart-with-briggs-and-stratton-l0206/91278/page1/). On chassis choice, if you can buy new or gently used I would recommend it. Some used karts are beat, and will take away from the enjoyment especially if they have been involved in an accident and/or no longer in production. You may spend the same amount money fixing a used kart then buying new or gently used(racing is a money pit). Personally I prefer metric karts, because most people run them at sprint tracks and parts are transferable between the different chassis, although there are a few American Chassis such as Margay they have both Standard and Metric parts. In 4cycle I never paid for a tire because we were only allowed to run used so I just got the throw away tires from the tag guys. Usually I could get a year out of used set. Also a Kart can be put in the back of a truck or a small trailer that any car can pull.

I've heard lots of people recommend starting with 4 cycle stuff, but I started my karting "career" three years ago in TaG and I couldn't be happier. I like TaG because with an electric kart lift I can pretty much be a one man band at the track. I do like the concept of the LO206, I just wish it had a bit more power.

I run at PRK and most people jump into a kart are exhausted after one lap (it is big for a kart track), so Tag can be intimidating especially since at that time I was racing most of the people who were national winners and I really didn't have a clue what I was doing. 4cycle is one person start just pull the cord and go. Although it might not be fast if you are racing 15-20 people it is a blast, so like what is said above find the popular class and go for it or try and rally people to buy into a engine you like. I have noticed that my driving has improved and when I do a occasional chumpcar race I know that karting has helped.

The physical aspect of karting is a really good point. I'm not in the greatest shape in the world, and three 15 lap races in a TaG or shifter on my local sprint track kicks my butt pretty good.

I ran 100 laps in a clone the other night and didn't break a sweat.

I've been racing a Rotax single speed kart for almost two years now. I came straight from rental karts and still wasn't old enough to have a driver's license, so the learning curve was steep but by no means was it impossible. I am just starting to race at the national level and prices have skyrocketed, but if you stay reasonable the costs will be as well. During the summer months I have trouble getting a set of the spec tires to last two races, and the engines have not stayed together for anywhere close to the hours Rotax says they are supposed to, however many have engines that seem to be bulletproof. I never overrev, always run on the rich side, and mix a little more oil in the gas than Rotax recommends, but the bottom end keeps going out. I've had to rebuild 8 engines for various reasons in the last year and a half.

Given all my problems, I'm slow to recommend a Rotax FR125, however the DD2 and junior engines seem to stay together a little better than the senior engines. Definitely find out what classes make up the majority of the racers. Local to me, the LO206 class has a huge field and they always run a very tight race while keeping the budget in check. One caution about most 4 stroke classes however, try to be sure never to drive a 2 stroke kart until you are ready to make the jump, the speed is addicting!

Also, there is a reason why most current professional drivers came up through the ranks of karting. Everything happens faster in a kart until you get to the upper echelon of prototypes and open wheel cars. Schumacher has said that a shifter kart is the closest anyone can reasonably get to the sensation of a F1 car. Make sure to see what the track runs and if it a serious group and it will be tons of fun with great people to boot.

The feel I get is that this is just 10 dr. buddies toy. I'm pretty sure they are NOT good drivers (I saw two of them drive, maybe it was the hard compounds, cold weather, and damp) but they were sliding sideways the whole time, and they said several times that the way you go fast is to control the drift. I'm pretty sure if you experienced carters showed up you'd be way faster. The asphalt looks good, (except for ponding). It sounds like they trusted the local contractor a little to much on the construction, and made some poor choices on the track cross section and materials. When they built it the idea was to open it up to the public, but I think they don't need the money and would rather have it to themselves, so they never really developped leagues, or rules, or anything like that.

Here's the most recent video of them driving

amarillo karting

He's geared wrong, but he's not any more sideways than I'd expect. Karts have to be loose - they don't have differentials so the inside rear wheel is customarily not touching the track after turn-in. You're not supposed to toss them sideways, drift style, but there's a very visible slip angle whenever they're not going straight.

The driver there isn't one of the drs but the kart mechanic they hired to fix there stuff and run the track, I haven't seen him in a kart but he is very good in his miata at our local autocross.

The 4-strokes are kind of the Spec Miata of karting. Surprisingly quick, but most 2-strokes will kick their arses. OTOH it seems like 2-strokes are rebuilding their top-ends every half-dozen events, replacing their $300 clutches almost as often, and it's not uncommon to run into a guy who's got $10k into his kart. A Briggs LO206 OTOH will last you years with little more than oil changes.

Here's one of my favorite big-time kart racing videos. It's old, but shows future F1 star Lewis Hamilton coming from the back to a victory - thrilling::

UK Karting

4-stroke racing lacks the same mind-bending speeds, but it all depends what you want out of it.

I don't think he's geared wrong, he is just above a bog in the slowest sections and isn't on the limiter on the straights. It's all about compromise with a single speed kart on track with both high and low speed corners. He also isn't sliding much at all, though I am used to a almost constantly green track with all the rain we have in south Louisiana, and while the driver definitely isn't one of the best, he is decent. The karts on the track did worry me a little. Almost every kart was a newer OTK of some sort, or almost 5k for a roller, and they looked to be sporting one of the TAG engines, also relatively expensive. I doubt that these doctors would enjoy a 4 stroke kart and without anyone to run with, it would lose its fun pretty quickly.

That's one of my concerns. They look at my miata as low brow compared to there gtrs. If I show up in a slow cart it may not be really welcomed.

I see by your outfit that you are a Cowboy...... Dorifto

Luke: Rich guys always have spares. Cut a harder deal. You want a membership AND a loaner!