Learn me minivans

This topic comes up from time to time, I'm mostly looking for a refresher. Our budget is in the $10-20k range, but we would need financing at the top end of the range and I'd rather pay cash if possible. Really struggling to balance out my frugalness with buying a reliable people mover.

Needs to last 10 years and 100,000 miles and not have its repair costs exceed its market value. Bonus points for gas mileage, safety features, stick shifts and diy repairability.

2005 - 2010 Odysseys - Are the transmissions still a problem in these years? Is buying a 100-130k mile version a terrible idea?

2008-2010 Sienna - These seem like they should be depreciating more now that they are not the current generation, but prices are still high. 2008+ has the 3.5l motor, no timing belt. Again, is 100k miles taking on too much risk? Sludge problems?

2011 + Sienna - These are starting to creep below $20k in the used market. I like the looks, but not sure if owning a newer Toyota is worth having a car payment.

2006 - 2012 Mazda5 - I'm actually still entertaining this option. We'll have 3 kiddos 2 @ 5 years old and 1 newborn. The Mrs. and I are both really short so that helps with leg room. We don't do a lot of long road trips with lots of stuff and I have a cargo box and Yakima bars already. Conventional wisom suggests Mazda5 is no good for 3+ kids. Can we be the exception? Could pick up an earlier model and have no car payment.

2011+ Caravan / T&C - The Pentastar's performance looks fantastic (but there are some head problems out there). Stow 'n go is useful. I could get a 1-2 year old Caravan for the price of a 2006 - 2007 Odyssey and it will have half the miles plus a 100k mile powertain warranty. Would you rather take a 2006 Odyssey from 100k to 200k or a 2011 Caravan from 50k to 150k?

Am I overlooking any other important models (Entourage, Sedona, Flex... )?

Sorry for the lengthy post. Just looking for some opinions or experiences to solidify my confusion.

What is the planned use for the van? I'd assume family hauling. Little kids, bigger ones? Edit that, I just read your family situation. Perfect...read on.

We bought an '06 Sedona brand new. Is it the cream of the minivan crop? No, not really. The Sienna and Oddessy are "fancier". But the Sedona was $7k less than a comparable Sienna/Oddessy. We've hauled around 3 kids in it. When we bought the van, my wife was still pregnant with our twins, and my oldest was 3 years old. So it's hauled newborns all the way up to a now 9 year old. We knew it would have baby food, raisins, McDonalds and all kinds of other crap inside of it. We couldn't justify beating the living snot out of a more expensive van, which was one reason we bought the Sedona. It's a bargain.

83k miles later, I still think it's the best value in minivans. Besides routine maintenance, the only "issue" it's had is a split air intake hose. $10 from the Kia parts counter and 10 minutes for me to install it. I've also towed many cars on a dolly, and a landscape trailer full of various things many times.

It comes standard with something like 42 cupholders, which is great for kids. 3 zone climate control, 6 airbags, stability control, ABS, etc... Has done very well in crash testing.

I'd strongly recommend checking it out. If you're looking for a bargain, I think they're the best out there.

So from what I understand, you have four kids? Than that rules out the Mazda5. I have three kids (4, 6 and 7) and a 2012 Mazda5. We all fit but when all the family is in, it's a squeeze. I don't see us still using it in more than 5 years. When we go on a trip, even with our large Thule box on top, we are lacking space.

What I would recommend is a 2007-2008 Ford Taurus X. They are virtually unknown (so cheap), but great family vehicle. I had 2005 Ford Freestyle before the Mazda5 and I loved that thing for family transportation. I got rid of it because I got scared of the CVT transmission. The Taurus X is an improved version of the Freestyle, with a normal auto and a larger engine.

I have 3 kids, a Mazda5 (manual), and a Sedona. You should buy one of those two.

SWMBO drives an 05 T&C that we purchased with 45k miles. Nearly 95k later, I just replaced sway bar bushings and tie rod ends. Struts will probably be done with in the year.

Other than that? Just drive it with regular oil changes every 5-6,000 (HIghway miles).

Thanks for the input. Will research Sedonas and Taurus X. We have two kids currently and a third on the way....

Sedona and Entourage. Right off the bat they have the longest warranty, they are just as solid as the others in the list and their resale isn't nearly as retarded. Definately suggest looking.

Odyssey's in your price range are going to be the critters with the craps trans.... wait, that's all Honda FWD auto's. Never mind.

We love our Caravan (2011) which replaced our Freestyle (CVT went bad once and it didn't look like there was a real solution). The Caravan is a better choice for a real family car than the Freestyle/Taurus X. The Mazda5 is a great runabout, but not big enough for real kid + stuff hauling.

My mom has a 2010 Odyssey EX-L and she has had no transmission problems. She had a 2007 with transmission problems (among many others, it was a lemon) and eventually they issued a recall. So far she has had no problems with her '10 at all. Worst case scanario, you replace it (or do a manual swap), they've been around for a while so junkyards are full of 'em. Provided the transmission is in good health, the odyssey should definately go past 130k. mi. My neighbor has a 2005 with 250k. mi. and she takes absolutely no care of her car whatsoever. It hasn't been washed (ever), and last time I was in it it had a punctured tire (that she was ignoring) and the oil was over 999mi. overdue. So far the transmission failed at around 200k., an engine mount failed just recently the power door motor failed this year and the horn within the past month. The Odyssey has excellent steering feedback (with performance summer tires) but does roll around. We got a wood kit off eBay for about $150 and it really spruced up the sea of gray interior. I'd recommend getting tan or black if you spring for the leather. Also, (and this goes for all minivans, especially used), buy all weather floor mats, especially if the cloth ones aren't black. Of all the minivans you listed, the Odyssey is far and above the roomiest although the latest Sienna does come close. My only other qualms are the brakes (probably about par for the class) and the limited range of the telescoping steering wheel.

The 2008 Sienna handled poorly and could lay rubber in second gear (no traction control on the one I rode in) at 60mph! AWD models come with run *rap tires and I don't think you can put regular tires on the OE rims. Body roll was appalling but it was well insulated from the road (both in ride and noise).

The 2011 Sienna was extremely noisy and the traction control came on in second gear on a dry road! If you get one, try to get the SE model.

The Mazda 5's third row is unusable in my opinion. I haven't sat in a seat that cramped since the back seat of a Porshce 996 Turbo.

I personally wouldn't trust the Caravan. I have heard many horror stories surrounding the 2008-2010 models, Consumer Reports seems to agree.

Don't forget the Kia Ronodo, Ford Flex and Saturn Outlook

Overall, I would definitely buy a Honda Odyssey, preferably an EX-L.

My understanding is that the oh-my-god-they-all-fail transmissions in the Odysseys stopped around 2004-2005. We have a 2007 with ~55K on it, tranny has been fine (although I'm certainly more proactive about changing the fluid in it than I might be with other vehicles).

codrus wrote: My understanding is that the oh-my-god-they-all-fail transmissions in the Odysseys stopped around 2004-2005. We have a 2007 with ~55K on it, tranny has been fine (although I'm certainly more proactive about changing the fluid in it than I might be with other vehicles).

Well according to this site, the problems haven't stopped with the transmission. My neighbors or on their forth transmission on their 04 Odyssey. While they are not car people, they aren't neglectful retards either. And since this is by far the most expensive minivan on the market, I really wouldn't have patience with that kind of crap. YMMV.

We like our 2010 Town & Country (3.8L) but the brakes suck - I'm about to replace them for the third time in 2 years due to excessive grinding and shuddering. This apparently is a known issue with these models (not sure of the 11+ redesign) and the answer seems to be "just replace them every 12-15k"....

As far as I know, a minivan will suck the life out of you. Is that what you want? If so, then get the Toyota, or the Honduh. Eventually, you will scream "Kill me now!!!" and then you will fully understand the minivan.

fanfoy wrote: Well according to this site, the problems haven't stopped with the transmission. My neighbors or on their forth transmission on their 04 Odyssey. While they are not car people, they aren't neglectful retards either. And since this is by far the most expensive minivan on the market, I really wouldn't have patience with that kind of crap. YMMV.

My 04 Odyssey (purchased new in 12/04) has 155k on the original trans, no problems whatsoever. Don't shift while it is still moving, and NEVER tow with one.. and it should run like a Honda. A couple years ago I read the fear mongering and put a trans oil cooler on it, with an extra filter. Rock solid before and after. But you don't want one from this year anyway....

...Your kids are still small and you have a roof rack solution. I'd get a Mazda 5 and re-evaluate in a few years; maybe by then the 2010 Odyssey's prices will have relaxed a bit.

fastEddie wrote: We like our 2010 Town & Country (3.8L) but the brakes suck - I'm about to replace them for the third time in 2 years due to excessive grinding and shuddering. This apparently is a known issue with these models (not sure of the 11+ redesign) and the answer seems to be "just replace them every 12-15k"....

The answer is "replace the brake lines with SS versions", the 2011 were not affected.

Dr. Hess wrote: As far as I know, a minivan will suck the life out of you. Is that what you want? If so, then get the Toyota, or the Honduh. Eventually, you will scream "Kill me now!!!" and then you will fully understand the minivan.

Maybe, maybe not.

I leased a Plymouth Voyager for 3 years, 3.0 V-6.

I drove the piss out of it, and had fun all the way.

Fastest I got was maybe 110 on I-4 from Orlando to Tampa, and it was stable and comforable.
My favorite was surprising 'sporty car' drivers on interstate exit/entrance ramps.

But maybe it was just me, and not the vehicle I was driving at the time.

Anyway, I rented a Sedona for a weeklong family vacation, and was VERY impressed.
Worth a look, IMHO.

Carter

fanfoy wrote:

codrus wrote: My understanding is that the oh-my-god-they-all-fail transmissions in the Odysseys stopped around 2004-2005. We have a 2007 with ~55K on it, tranny has been fine (although I'm certainly more proactive about changing the fluid in it than I might be with other vehicles).

Well according to this site, the problems haven't stopped with the transmission. My neighbors or on their forth transmission on their 04 Odyssey. While they are not car people, they aren't neglectful retards either. And since this is by far the most expensive minivan on the market, I really wouldn't have patience with that kind of crap. YMMV.

Anyone who has an Odyssey with a dead transmission of any year assumes it's part of the massive failure. All the stats I've seen say that the failure rate dropped off enormously (down to the kind of normal failure rates that are true for any vehicle) after the 04 model year.

Even the stats on that site bear that out, down the left-hand column they list the documented failures by year.

See the graph in this article: http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-archive/2010/03/honda-odyssey-owners-report-transmission-troubles-inconsistent-response-from-maker.html

I'm not sure where you get "by far the most expensive minivan" from -- when we bought ours in 2007 the prices were very comparable with the Sienna, and not all that far off the Chrysler products.

Our Odyssey has been a Honda. It's needed consumables and basic maintenance and nothing else in the time we've owned it.

Dr. Hess wrote: As far as I know, a minivan will suck the life out of you. Is that what you want? If so, then get the Toyota, or the Honduh. Eventually, you will scream "Kill me now!!!" and then you will fully understand the minivan.

I thought this would be my reaction after buying a van, but can now say I like the van. It's no fun car, but if you have kids you will think " why didn't I do this earlier. ". Right tool for the job.

I have 3 kids and a dog.
It's not on your list, but we bought a loaded up '04 Silhouette from a guy in his 80's.

The van is like new and the rear seats didn't look like they were sat in. For $5k, we'll deal with the trans and HG issues as they come up. We planned on getting 5-6 years out of it. I didn't want to keep the people mover very long since neither one of us like driving minivan's.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

Dr. Hess wrote: As far as I know, a minivan will suck the life out of you. Is that what you want? If so, then get the Toyota, or the Honduh. Eventually, you will scream "Kill me now!!!" and then you will fully understand the minivan.

I thought this would be my reaction after buying a van, but can now say I like the van. It's no fun car, but if you have kids you will think " why didn't I do this earlier. ". Right tool for the job.

Exactly. From what I've seen, most people who buy into the minivan "stigma" have never had one and/or don't have multiple kids. They're exactly the right tool for a young family, far better than any SUV or wagon. The only way I'd be screaming "Kill me now" would be if you had taken my minivan away anytime in the past 6 years.

Tuna, help me out here: what's the connection between stainless steel brake lines lines and "grinding and shuddering"? I thought that was due to poor (i.e., undersized or badly designed) rotors. Also, what changed in 2011?

Thanks.

Stealthtercel wrote: Tuna, help me out here: what's the connection between stainless steel brake lines lines and "grinding and shuddering"? I thought that was due to poor (i.e., undersized or badly designed) rotors. Also, what changed in 2011? Thanks.

From what I have heard it was due to calipers getting stuck on the rotors, never really releasing, and warping them (or leaving compound on the rotor) due to a deterioration of the brake lines. If it were my car, I would replace them, the fluid, and take a long hard look at the calipers. The van probably needs stuff like that anyway. If that didn't fix it, I would find a different rotor to fit - they are "interchangeable" in interesting ways... but I'd try the lines first.

Dr. Hess wrote: As far as I know, a minivan will suck the life out of you. Is that what you want?

I totally agree. What a stupid vehicle. I had one of the worst for work - Chevrolet Venture 2004, 2006. No power or acceleration.

Until I moved a face cord of firewood, 3 bicycles, ran 7 of us and down the Door County, WI peninsula, loaded more home owner projects, slept in the back and on and on.

Klayfish wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote:

Dr. Hess wrote: As far as I know, a minivan will suck the life out of you. Is that what you want? If so, then get the Toyota, or the Honduh. Eventually, you will scream "Kill me now!!!" and then you will fully understand the minivan.

I thought this would be my reaction after buying a van, but can now say I like the van. It's no fun car, but if you have kids you will think " why didn't I do this earlier. ". Right tool for the job.

Exactly. From what I've seen, most people who buy into the minivan "stigma" have never had one and/or don't have multiple kids. They're exactly the right tool for a young family, far better than any SUV or wagon. The only way I'd be screaming "Kill me now" would be if you had taken my minivan away anytime in the past 6 years.

Yeah, this, plus my Pentastar V6 Minivan is quick. Too quick, honestly. I would have preferred a Pentastar I4 if they had designed one.

As the owner of a Mazda5 I can say I'd never ever recommend one for three kids. Perfect for one, great for two, terrible for three. It's just not possible to get a reasonable amount of cargo in if you're using the third row. Roof racks aren't a great substitute for in-car storage.

I'd look at Mazda's MPV if you want something for 3 kids with no car payment - they seem to be cheaper than same-MY Mazda5s actually. Chryslerco's minivans are similarly a good deal. Enough above has been said about the Oddy's trans issues.