Learn me on inexpensive/secondhand welders.

So after almost 20 years of working on cars, I figure it's about time for me to learn how to weld. I've always kind of held off knowing that having the ability to weld would get me in serious trouble with a million new projects and ideas, I'd probably go broke buying metal or building some kind of wierd trailer or something equally random.

But I've finally given up "improvising" parts and fixes. So time to learn.

There are friends around here who weld, so that shouldn't be a problem - so my question here at 1145 on a saturday night when I have nothing better to do is about equipment.

1. I need something easy to use that doesn't take up much space. I am running low on space to put more tools, etc.
2. It has to run on 110. At the moment I don't have 220, and that won't happen for a year or two when I finish the workshop/shed with power, etc.
3. I don't need to do any heavy-duty work like building frames. Just want to be able to do small stuff, maybe some seam welding, etc.

Browsing CL, found the following: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/tls/3316380625.html

Thoughts? Good starter setup that will work well? Good price?

And yes, I need to go dig out the GRM issue that compares various types of welders, etc.....

Red (lincoln*) or blue (miller)....They're the two major brands, and that makes it easy to have them serviced or get replacement parts.

You want continuous controls (rheostat) instead of tapped controls....it makes possible to make fine adjustments to current/wire speed instead of having to modify your technique.

Get something with capability for gas (MIG) and not just flux core

If you think you will ever work with aluminum, you want something you can get a spool gun for and reverse the polarity on

Don't waste money on a welding cart. Fabbing one up is a nice way to get used to the settings on your new machine.

If you go with a Lincoln, get a PowerMIG, not a ProMIG. The ProMIGs have cheap plastic wire feeds, and when they break, normal welding shops don't have them....you need to have the bits special ordered from Lowes

thanks, will keep looking!

Wait for a few other opinions. That's mine, but you'll obviously want others. BTW, I typed my prior response - all of it - before I followed the link and saw that you were looking at a ProMIG. ProMIGs, and their parts, are only sold through lowes. Lincoln won't even sell an extended warrantee on ProMIGs

If you do decide to get the cheaper ProMIG, you will want to - buy and keep on hand - a set of replacement parts. That will let you avoid the frustration of placing a special parts order through lowes and then waiting for for delivery when stuff breaks.

I have a Hobart Handler 140 I picked up at a pawn shop for $200. The ones around here always seem to have a couple in stock, so you might check them.

As far as brands, Linclon, Miller and Hobart is what I would be looking at.

I got a used (still in the original box used 1x) 110V Lincoln several years back and it has been great. There were many much cheaper options out there but this is a case when spending a little more $$$ really is worth it. The other thing I would recommend is an auto darkening helmet. Once you use one you will never go back. I keep two hand held face shields and a flip mask around if I have people around who want to watch.

dean1484 wrote: The other thing I would recommend is an auto darkening helmet. Once you use one you will never go back.

+1 you want one. My little harbor freight one has served me well

Your are getting the right advice.

Name brand Lincoln Miller Hobart ESAB' Gas shielding Wire goes bad, so if it is around after a year toss it. DO NOT buy cheap no-name wire. It is made from floor sweepings and will drive you nuts. Auto darkening helmet with shade controls.

There is a trick to welding that once you figure it out everything becomes easy, but until you do, this cand drive you nuts. When you pull the trigger, there will be lots of light and sparks and noise. What you need to learn is how to look past all the superficial light show and SEE the little puddle of molten metal that is your workpiece and the molten wire. This is the show and all the rest is a distraction.

http://www.praxairdirect.com/PXItemDisplay?storeId=10152&catalogId=10051&langId=-1&itemID=65670&categoryId=&top_category=

I cant say enough good things about this machine its been used hard nearly everyday for 3 years its gone through a few tips and a gas cup and that's it. Welds as good or better than any name brand machine Ive used

I'm a Miller (blue) fan myself. One of my then co-workers said that the company's Lincoln had failed in the field a few times, and that the Miller hadn't ever let him down (boiler service co.).

I bought a Millermatic 175 (220V) which was the next step up from the Millermatic 135 (110V) that my co-worker was talking about. I wanted the 220V unit as past history (that was my 3rd MIG after a "no-name" brand and a Century) proved that more people will ask to borrow a 110V machine ;)

I sold the 175 about 1-1/2 years ago and bought a Millermatic 252 (BIG machine) and just love it! I put the 175 on Craig's list for $450.00, hoping to get $400, and started getting phone calls the first night; it was sold a day later for my full asking price (leaving me to believe I didn't ask enough...).

Here's Miller's website link: http://www.millerwelds.com/ They have some really good discussion forums too (as does Lincoln) but I'm a big fan of the blue stuff!

Miller 140 w/ Autoset, $708 with free shipping. . Get a 60lb gas bottle locally and you are welding.

I bought one of these brand new about 5 years ago... it is rock solid, can do 1/4" steel in a single pass on 110v. I've put a LOT of wire thru it. It has done everything I've asked from thin sheet to roll cages to suspension and brake mounts. I really can't recommend it more highly. It continues to exceed my expectations and for that price with free shipping it's a pretty stout deal.

I have owned Lincoln (cheapy little one), Hobart (big 250), and Miller (185amp,220vac) The Hobart was the best, but it was an industrial sized unit. Lincoln was a Home Depot piece with plastic drive assy that broke, but was fixed with JB Weld. Miller was a great piece and I was impressed by warranty/service. That Praxair unit has good specs, and a good referral. At that price, sounds real good. Praxair is big in welding supplies, so I would imagine that they would stand behind the product. Just stay far away from the cheap units that have a hot lead as soon as the welder is turned on. .Will drive you nuts. Harbor freight does have a good auto dark helmet for 50.00. Absolutely necessary. Buy your wire and consumables from a pro shop, not a big box store. Better quality, and a good place to hang out and talk to experienced folk.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Miller 140 w/ Autoset, $708 with free shipping. . Get a 60lb gas bottle locally and you are welding. I bought one of these brand new about 5 years ago... it is rock solid, can do 1/4" steel in a single pass on 110v. I've put a LOT of wire thru it. It has done everything I've asked from thin sheet to roll cages to suspension and brake mounts. I really can't recommend it more highly. It continues to exceed my expectations and for that price with free shipping it's a pretty stout deal.

I bought some of my machines (Millermatic 252, Dynasty 200 DX package and Spectrum 625__older BIG style) from them: Indiana Oxygen Company = IOC. They do offer some great deals, fast shipping and phone support when you need it; I had never set up a TIG before, and the phone guy put me on the right track.

As you say, "I really can't recommend more highly"

In reply to Randy_Forbes:

I was referring to the 140 welder, not the seller in my recommendation. I bought mine from a local shop. That is not to say that I wouldn't buy from IOC though - good price, free shipping and they have a good record on ebay. My local shop was helpful but quite a bit more expensive.

Stay away from the Northern flux welders (ask me how I know=])
another vote for red or blue here

I bought my Miller from IOC. Very satisfied. Asked the Mgr how they could get 100% positive feedback, he told me their biggest problem was UPS.. I can believe that!

What is the difference between the Millermatic 135 and the 140? There's a 135 locally for fairly inexpensive.

Also, thanks for the advice. That's why I ask here, people who buy stuff that works and needs to keep working!

I've got a little lincoln 110v with gas. It has the plastic drive parts - that broke in the first year or so. I've put a lot of wire through it - everything from 1/4 plate bumpers for the old bronco to cages to body panels. So it is very capable. While I've gotten a lot of use out of it, I wouldn't recommend the home depot version with plastic drive to anyone. It's worth the extra coin for the better units.

edit - also have used the HF $50 helmets. They are ok, but a little slow. If you use one, learn to blink when you strike an arc.

oldtin wrote: edit - also have used the HF $50 helmets. They are ok, but a little slow. If you use one, learn to blink when you strike an arc.

I used to get "itchy" eyes from one of the older ones after using it for a day but I just picked up a brand new one a few weeks ago and it "seems" better. I quote that because I have no empirical evidence, just comfortable eyes in the evening after running it quite a bit. Maybe it is hit or miss, maybe they improved the product... but they are a million times better than the old fixed kind that made you learn the "nod" to snap it closed at the same time you hit the trigger.

JoeyM wrote:

dean1484 wrote: The other thing I would recommend is an auto darkening helmet. Once you use one you will never go back.

+1 you want one. My little harbor freight one has served me well

2nd... this made my ugly welds go from absolutely hideous to just ugly (and sadly i've been complemented on those ugly welds a few times now lol)...

I have to disagree with skipping rite to a 220V unit. I got the biggest 110 unit (a 140 I think) and it has been fine. I also really like flux core. 99.9 percent of the time I am taking the welder to what needs to be welded or to the track or out to the driveway to weld a car or to the shed to fix a mower. Yes the welds are ugly compared to a gas weld they are messy and require more cleanup but the convenience of grabbing the welder out of my basement crawling under a car to tack up an exhaust system. Taking it to the track has been invaluable. I have not once wanted a 220 unit. Unless you are welding 1/4" plate all the time there really is no need. Hell the last "serious" thing I welded was when I made no trailing arms for the expedition and that was 3/16" steel tubing and my little Lincoln welded it with out issue.

The advice about getting over the flash and sparks is spot on. IT is just a byproduct of the process and has no bearing on the actual weld quality. "seeing the puddle" is key. Get it rite and it will sound like sizzling bacon. Get it wrong and it pops and has a lower pitch to the welding sound.

If you get a Lincoln welder there is a chart for base line settings for welding various thicknesses of metal. I have found these to be pretty close. I usually need to add more heat or slow the wire down just a little but they are a great bass line. Try welding at the recommended settings then slow the wire down a bit and weld some more. Then put the wire speed back and increase the heat. Do all this on the same two pieces of metal. Also be aware that as you weld you are add in heat to the metal so if you have a long bead you either have to move around or adjust your heat setting back to compensate for the buildup of heat in the metal. Again play with it Have fun. I have a couple books on welding that were given to me by a friend.

One of the best is "Monster Garage How to weld Damn Near Anything" A very good book that covers a lot of ground.

Like OP, I'm just learning how to weld. I started on an $80 HF flux core MIG. I urge you to avoid this route if possible as you will never achieve any real quality output from it. I've recently moved up to the budget-priced Eastwood TIG200 that is advertised in the magazine. There is a bit of a learning curve here, but the product itself seems well built and works flawlessly. I want to work with aluminum, hence the move to TIG instead of a gas MIG.

Do some reading about the dangers of welding before you get started (eg: zinc fumes from welding galvanized or that one story about brake parts cleaner that comes up every now and again).

If you're in NoVA, check out a Roberts Oxygen retail location for your supplies. The guys on staff are super helpful and they seem to have just about everything needed in-stock.

BTW: The helmet pictured above is on sale at HF right now. 3/4 down the page on the right side:

http://www.harborfreight.com/oct-tab1.html

In reply to Armitage:

screw that, I'm gonna go get the $3.99 "18" Machete with Nylon Sheath"

Thanks, I will check out Roberts. I see their trucks here and there, IIRC.

Any other thoughts on the Eastwood welders?

I agree that 220V with gas is the way to go. That's the setup I have now.

I did, however, build a lot of stuff with a 110V flux-core Century. It can be done.

irish44j wrote: Any other thoughts on the Eastwood welders?

I am seriously considering the 200 TIG, plasma cutter and cart deal with free shipping for @1299.99 in the latest GRM. I need to find a real human who has used one for a while because I hear it is pretty good, chinese junk and everything in between by googling it. It has a 3yr bumper to bumper warranty and Eastwood has a decent reputation for standing behind other chinese junk they sell so I might have to be my own guinea pig - it is literally half the cost of the one I really want (Miller Diversion 180). If it works well - who can argue with an extra $800-900 in their pocket?