Learn Me- Peugeot 505

This thing has caught my interest as a potential "slowest gastropod, longest drive in a hideously unreliable car" challenge entry:  https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/d/downingtown-1985-peugeot-505td-25/6947175562.html

Does anybody here know anything about these?  Looks like I can still get brake and suspension parts, and I know the bolt pattern is wacky, but other than that I don't know much about them.  Is there a French equivalent to RockAuto where I can look for things like injectors and transmission pieces?  Somebody here has to have owned one.

You can't find parts on Rock Auto?

Someone in Canada was looking for exhaust valves for a 16v Lancia Delta Integrale, and the second or third response was a Rock Auto link.  So, I wouldn't discount them just because the cars are weird.  And heck, they were at least sold in North America, Lancias weren't.

When I was a kid I used to watch Motorweek every week.  I swear they must have had an in at the closest Peugeot dealership to Owings Mills, MD, because I think every other week had a Peugeot featured.  The first time I saw a 505 in the wild was the first time I rallycrossed at Bitzer's Farm, because the owner road-races one.

Rock Auto lists fuel injectors and clutch kits and ball joints and all the brake parts and ignition parts. And a lot of the parts are shockingly cheap. No struts though. And, yeah, they use the 4x140 bolt pattern, which was only shared with the old-school Subarus (think Loyales and DLs and GLs) and those only ran super narrow 13" and 14" wheels. My local junkyard had 2 sedans and a wagon there a month or so ago, but they have since crushed them unfortunately

In reply to NickD :

The one I posted is diesel- I know the gas engines have more parts available.

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Whoops, you're right, totally did not read the entire ad.

Also, amusingly, thanks to the 4x140mm bolt pattern being shared by old Subarus, there are 4x140 to 5x100 adapters available- which means I already have some wheels that would fit 

Growing up, my family owned two 504 diesels and a gas engined 505. I always loved the lines on these cars, but man they were all dead slow.

Dude, buy the wagons the same guy has for sale.  Also $1k and you get a 5spd wagon with spark plugs.

https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/d/modena-1990-peugeot-405-wagons/6937332611.html

I am new to the world of Peugeots and have been spending a lot of time fixing up "Peu Peu" the 86k mile '89 505 DL wagon that I bought from a good friend back in May of this year. It's a super base model with the only option being an automatic transmission. It didn't even have a radio until I installed one last weekend! 

First off, they are durable and well-built cars. Very comfy seats and a soft ride. Reminds me a lot of the '83 Mercedes-Benz 300D (W123) I drove in college. Their rugged reputation made them popular in Africa where a lot of the used European market cars ended up.

Parts availability seems to be hit or miss. From RockAuto I was able to order front rotors/pads, rear shoes and wheel cylinders. They also have other parts like brake master cylinders, ball joints, tie rod ends, brake hoses, filters, tune-up parts, etc. I'm probably going to stock up on some of that.

Some other parts have been more difficult to source. For example, I could not find a driver's side steering rack boot anywhere online so I contacted Peter Holm in Vermont who runs a business called Peugeot Holm where he's been selling Peugeot parts since 1969. He was able to sell me a new one for $20 and I plan on using him in the future. Another issue I had was my center resonator rusting out and the only one I could  find in the WHOLE WORLD cost $340 plus shipping so instead I opted to have a local exhaust shop delete it with a pipe for $100. It honestly doesn't sound any different from stock.

I hit up that junkyard in New York that NickD mentioned (his photos below) and had just missed the cars hitting the crusher so I was super bummed. One of them even had what appeared to be nice E-codes.

There were a lot of different engine/transmission combos and some can be harder to find parts for than others. Another example, I needed a radiator since mine was rotted out and sprang a leak. I looked online and could not find one anywhere again in the WHOLE WORLD for a car with a 2.2L gas engine so I had have mine recored for nearly $500. However, for other engines radiators were readily available new for $200 or so.

I paid $800 for mine which was kind of a deal since my friend actually paid more than that for it and put new Pirelli tires and did the timing belt before selling it to me. I'd say that one is well-priced at $1000. 

The best resource I've been able to find is the Peugeot of North America Facebook group. Lots of super knowledgable folks on there.

A final thing to mention is that from the B-pillar back the sedans and wagons are pretty much a totally different car. The wagons have an 8-inch longer wheelbase (with a ton back seat room) and a heavy duty solid rear axle whereas the sedans have a IRS setup. 

I'd say go for it just as long as you are OK with the challenge/expense of finding certain parts. But they are wonderfully unique and fairly easy to wrench on. I also got the A/C working on mine so that has added to the enjoyment. Being a gas 2.2 auto wagon mine is really slow around town but it's a good cruiser/highway vehicle. I'd imagine the diesel has a similar character. 

When I was 22, my next door neighbor had a silver Peugeot wagon.

She was blonde and had a nice ass. That's all I remember about those cars.

RedGT said:

Dude, buy the wagons the same guy has for sale.  Also $1k and you get a 5spd wagon with spark plugs.

 

https://philadelphia.craigslist.org/cto/d/modena-1990-peugeot-405-wagons/6937332611.html

Yeah but I have a blue 1985 Peugeot road bike and the hipster street cred of the matched pair would be off the charts.

In reply to theshiftpattern :

Thanks for the detailed post!  Part of the point of owning one would be the challenge of finding parts and keeping it running- sort of an "every drive is an achievement" type of deal.  I just don't want to have to spend $2k to get an obscure fuel system part or something.

Hit up Arun James on the FB rallycorss group. He has two of them and rallycrosses one with DC on occasion.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

Yeah but I have a blue 1985 Peugeot road bike and the hipster street cred of the matched pair would be off the charts.

I got one too for the same reason. 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

In reply to theshiftpattern :

Thanks for the detailed post!  Part of the point of owning one would be the challenge of finding parts and keeping it running- sort of an "every drive is an achievement" type of deal.  I just don't want to have to spend $2k to get an obscure fuel system part or something.

Yeah, they made enough of them where I don't think anything should be too terrible to find. The challenge is fun though I don't think I'd rely one one for a daily driver. Join the FB group if you want to learn more.

In reply to theshiftpattern :

I have lots of other vehicles for when it's broken, but I would attempt to drive it to work pretty often because I'm an idiot.

I only remember seeing a turbo-diesel when I was young(er).  Neighbor had a 504 and we had several 303s if I remember the number correctly.  Still have a sedan and wagon at home with my parents.  

Growing up in the early 90s my dad had an 85 505 Sti Turbo Diesel 5 speed.  I learned to drive in that car and loved it dearly.  Back in the good ol days before the internet, it was just a 10 year old car with no parts availability.  Go to an auto parts store and ask for Peugeot parts and they would say "Ford Peugeot or Chevy Peugeot" - no lie.  

Ours had steel wheels because as I recall a lot of the alloy wheels were those goofy TRX tires so unless you like subpar tires at nice tire prices, confirm the car either has new tires or plan on changing them out.

We had two parts cars along with and were able to keep it running about 99% of the time.  It was a very solid car with a very comfortable ride.  Huge trunk with a flat floor because the spare was under the trunk floor and the gas tank was between the rear seat and the trunk.  

Ours had every power option available at the time since the Sti was the top end model.  It all worked even with over 200k on it.  Never really left us badly stranded, biggest headache was needing to replace glowplugs and my dad breaking one off in the head but he was able to extract it.  I bottomed it out in a farm lane and damaged the oil cooler, had to pull one of those off the parts car.  Otherwise it finally got sold just for the sake of selling it, we had just moved and my dad's commute doubled so he replaced it with a VW Golf which was the sensible approach.  

I would think with the internet of things available today you could do much better in terms of keeping one running and finding parts.  

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

BTW, I live in NY and was considering going down for the challenge, so if you want a chase/support vehicle to follow and make sure you don't end up stranded somewhere, I'd be willing.

I had a '85 505TD with a stick! I miss it dearly. Considering how dog slow it was to get moving from a stop, I can't imagine how awful it would be with a slushbox. One the highway it was awesome, but once again the auto might suck all the life out of it. I'll echo that it was comfy though.

I can attest that putting gas in it will blow a softball sized hole in the engine block, thus rendering the entire car totaled. I'm still ticked at my Dad for making me sell it to a distant relative who was "in a hard spot." Apparently that "hard spot" also included being too stupid to know the difference between gas and diesel pumps after being warned multiple times.

Seems like a perfect candidate for a V8 swap once you get bored with it in stock configuration. 

slefain said:

I had a '85 505TD with a stick! I miss it dearly. Considering how dog slow it was to get moving from a stop, I can't imagine how awful it would be with a slushbox. One the highway it was awesome, but once again the auto might suck all the life out of it. I'll echo that it was comfy though.

I can attest that putting gas in it will blow a softball sized hole in the engine block, thus rendering the entire car totaled. I'm still ticked at my Dad for making me sell it to a distant relative who was "in a hard spot." Apparently that "hard spot" also included being too stupid to know the difference between gas and diesel pumps after being warned multiple times.

I'm sorry your distant relative is an idiot. Someone like that has no business driving such a fine European automobile.

I can confirm that my 505 wagon with the 2.2L "Douvrin" gas engine and 4-speed ZF slushbox is the slowest vehicle I've ever driven. Maybe tied with the '86 Jeep Cherokee with an Iron Duke and 3-speed auto that my dad had when I was a teenager.

Bought a sub-100k 1986 505GL manual from a college kid, whose uncle was the original owner for $500.  Hauled it to a Rallycross National Tour stop.  Won SR class without so much as checking the tire pressure my first time out.  Immediately sold it to a forum member for $500.  

I don't recall it being all that slow and honestly thought the build quality was higher than I expected.  Also FR manual with a limited slip for $500.  And after a couple glasses of wine, not even that ugly.

I’m pretty sure Evan mentioned having owned one, and it was pretty darned reliable.  It only left him stranded once IIRC.

I don’t however recall where he got parts from- but there are places in the US that regularly stock and import parts.

The last one I saw in person was set up for road racing, cage and all.  I purposefully kept my distance from it so I wouldn’t start lusting after it...

In reply to paranoid_android :

I had a 405 mi16. It was great but I've always wanted a 505. Anything i couldn't source on rock auto i got from Peugeot Holm.