Learn me winter tires

We are moving up to central NJ in the next couple of months, SWMBO first then me and the kids mid next year. She has an 07 328 xi and I've heard both trains of thought, with good all purpose tires and awd ypu don't need a dedicated winter set but I've also heard that we should have a dedicated winter set with something like blizzacks on for winter. What's the best course of action. I want to keep her safe and mobile as possible through the winter. The car is autotragic also.

All cars have four wheel brakes and two wheel steering. Get winter tires.

I've had dedicated winter and summer sets on my WRX (and Maxima before it) for almost 10 years now. I'll never go back to an all-season ("no season") tire.

Get a "performance winter" tire that you can just put on a 2nd set of wheels and put on the car in November and leave them on until March. They drive/ride/handle just like all-seasons in the dry, but are much better in the winter stuff. I'm going on my 4th season on mine (4 months per year) on a quickly-driven WRX, so you can get some good longevity out of them.

A basic "snow/ice tire" will do great in those conditions, but is pretty mediocre/sucky when it's not wintry out, and they wear down a lot faster than performance winters.

I suggest either Dunlop Wintersport 3D/4D or Blizzak LM-series.

Also, the "AWD don't need them" is a fallacy, like Pete said. The most important part of winter tires is that they improve braking and cornering vs. all-seasons. AWD has little to do with those two aspects of winter driving. AWD only helps getting going from a stop in the snow.

My neighbor across the street has a WRX with all-seasons on it. It's funny watching him slide around in the winter. He slid into a curb in 1" of snow last winter. I take the same turn at the end of our street at 3x the speed in the same conditions with no slipping. Once you go winter tires, you'll never go back.

My way of thinking was getting the winter performance tires on a spare set of wheels. Right along irish44j ' s line of thinking. I know a guy locally has a set of 16s for a bmw but I think.its a small 5 series wheel and a larger size tire and he said they would rub on SWMBO's e90

Borbet type e with 235/60/16 blizzacks only used one season in pa. But they came off an e39

Ah.man can't i just throw some Bridgestone AT's on it and be good to go

Having used both a performance winter tire and standard winter tire on my corolla (the benefit of owning a car 13 years.) I have to say neither wears down faster than the other on dry roads. However, the drastic(yet mediocre) performance you gain in the dry with the performance winter, the snow and ice performance is that much better with the standard winter than the performance winter when the nasty stuff falls. I recommend general altimax arctic if they have them in your size.

That reminds me of the time I got an old Bronco on 35" Mudders stuck in the snow. Maybe 1/2" of dusting of snow. But it would not go up the (very gentle) hill until I got out and locked the front hubs.

When it gets below 40 degrees, many rubber compounds turn into plastic. There's actually a term for this phenomenon. (Glassification?) Glassing over?) The rubber doesn't conform to the ground anymore because it's too hard. Performance tires are scary for this but all-seasons will do it, too, albeit not as badly.

Either way, even a crappy "snow" tire will be better in the cold and dry than an all-season tire. And once you go Blizzak, you never go back.

ryanty22 wrote: Ah.man can't i just throw some Bridgestone AT's on it and be good to go

Most AT's aren't any better in wintry stuff than an all-season tire anyhow. Even the M+S rated AT tires aren't as good as a snow tire. Only time ATs are good is if you're in really deep stuff.

For ice/wintry mix/slush/less snow, a winter tire is superior

(btw, we have low-mile Bridgestone Dueller Revo2's M+S rated on our Sequoia. My WRX on half-worn Wintersport 3Ds still is far better in snow until it gets over a foot deep).

Unless you go nokian. Hakks will take some blizz lunch money and make em their bitch.

mndsm wrote: Unless you go nokian. Hakks will take some blizz lunch money and make em their bitch.

Ok this is almost 100% a different language to me.

And i was half joking about the all terrains on the bmw. I'd just want to put a set on to see the looks I'd get

Some ATs do come with the RMA mountain/snowflake severe snow service stamp, doubt you'll find any that will fit a modern BMW though.

I'm a fan of the General Altimax Artic, its a exact copy (Continental owns both) of a Gislaved snow tire, a Swedish Nokian competitor. Except they dont cost anywhere near Nokian money.

There are three basic types of winter tires: snow treads, ice tires, and studded. There are some that combine two of these characteristics in one tire.

Snow treads are simply otherwise normal tires with a tread pattern that grips, packs, and holds snow. The basic premise is that snow grips snow better than rubber does. During normal dry or wet operation, they act simply like (slightly noisier) tires. When it snows, they hold snow in the voids so that it can get additional grip on other snow. An example is something like Firestone Winterforce.

Ice tires are designed with compounds that remain soft (or get softer) in colder temperatures. They often also make use of proprietary sipes and tread designs that gain grip by deforming on ice and place additional pressure on those small areas to grip ice better. A good example is something like a Goodyear F32

Studs are very old-school technology, but they do provide very good traction on ice for obvious reasons. They are however incredibly noisy and severely reduce traction on dry and wet roads.

Blizzaks incorporate the soft ice compound with a snow-holding tread and are the "best" one out there. By that I mean they tend to be the most recommended because of their ability in ice and snow. Michelin X-ice tires are also pretty good bets, but tend to favor the ice grip with less ability to grip snow.

NJ has no need for studs. The one or two days that you get actual solid ice conditions certainly don't warrant the terrible side-effects that studs have. On those two days, stay home and have a cup of cocoa and watch reruns of Dr Who. I would suggest Blizzaks at all four corners. You will have greatly improved snow and ice traction with almost no downsides. I also suggest getting them in a narrower width with the same overall diameter. Narrow tires put a lot of pressure on the snow and cut through. Wide tires tend to act like snowshoes and stay on top of the snow.

I should also add that 4wd and Awd are just kinda stupid IMO. 99% of the time, the roads are a little snowy, wet with melted snow, or dry. 4wd is for off roading or getting unstuck. Awd is a neat handling thing sometimes and might get you moving if you're otherwise stuck.

I grew up in PA and ONT. My winter car was a 96 Impala SS with Blizzaks. Many winters I never put the Blizzaks on, I kept my 285mm wide summer-only rubber on all winter. My most recent house had a very long, steep driveway that was flanked with guardrails near the road. Because you couldn't get a running start, I did have some issues getting up the driveway sometimes, but that was only a couple days a year. One or two days of leaving the car in the front yard was not adequate reason for me to buy a Subaru or spend huge money on winter tires. I kept some Blizzaks around and I sometimes used them.

ryanty22 wrote:

mndsm wrote: Unless you go nokian. Hakks will take some blizz lunch money and make em their bitch.

Ok this is almost 100% a different language to me. And i was half joking about the all terrains on the bmw. I'd just want to put a set on to see the looks I'd get

Just a different brand. Nokian Hakkepelitas. Best winter tires EVAR.

mndsm wrote: Unless you go nokian. Hakks will take some blizz lunch money and make em their bitch.

Not true.

ryanty22 wrote:

mndsm wrote: Unless you go nokian. Hakks will take some blizz lunch money and make em their bitch.

Ok this is almost 100% a different language to me. And i was half joking about the all terrains on the bmw. I'd just want to put a set on to see the looks I'd get

Translation, unless you go Nokain happiliatia R2s, they beat the snot out of Blizzaks. The R2s beat most other brands studded snow tires in all snow tire test, there's like 3 studded tires above them and no studless, of course one of the 3 studded tires is Nokains studded snow.

I ran blizzaks on the wrx got 3 years out of them, still ton of tread left but they dont feel like cheater mode anymore, must have run out of the snow tire rubber and into the harder core. Have to order Nokains for this year.

We live in southern Ontario but in a very rural area. Our roads are well taken care of but we're not on the top of the list when it comes to snow plowing. I switch all of our vehicles over to winter tires. I have a set of Michelin X Ice tires on my car and a set of Blizzaks for my Wife. The kids make do with some off brand Korean rubber, nothing but the best for my offspring, that are still better than the best of the all season stuff. If we lived in an urban area where the roads are kept clear with lots of sanding and salting we could likely get by with all seasons but it would be a real compromise.

ryanty22 wrote: Borbet type e with 235/60/16 blizzacks only used one season in pa. But they came off an e39

Hub bore and offset is different. IIRC, E46 wheels will go right on, though.

ryanty22 wrote: We are moving up to central NJ in the next couple of months, SWMBO first then me and the kids mid next year. She has an 07 328 xi and I've heard both trains of thought, with good all purpose tires and awd ypu don't need a dedicated winter set but I've also heard that we should have a dedicated winter set with something like blizzacks on for winter. What's the best course of action. I want to keep her safe and mobile as possible through the winter. The car is autotragic also.

So have to ask how does your wife drive? Very Aggressive? Chilled? Super Cautious?

I have used full on Nokians and all types of Blizzacks. The best were the Yoke IceGUARDS. All of them are great but if you are on them in the fall or spring rain they can surprise you with the grip break away if not ready for it. I did get a set of Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires several years ago that did great on deep snow but only all season level on light snow or ice.

So if she is aggressive then I would almost say to go find an all season tire biased towards the winter use.

If cautious then the full winters would do great. She does have to get aggressive enough with the throttle to open up the sipes in deep snow from a stop. Throw some snow. (mild spin not spin up the tires to 60mph levels of RPM)

PS

The aggressive = All Seasons is because I have found them to have a more consistent drop off in multiple conditions. So in the rain/snow/dry they have a similar feel to them before losing grip.

Cautious = Full Winter because she won't be pushing them in the 40-60degF rain situations where they can have much different feel.

mndsm wrote: Unless you go nokian. Hakks will take some blizz lunch money and make em their bitch.

Only if you have studs... Nordic tires are intended to be studded, Japanese tires tend not to be.

Leafy wrote: I ran blizzaks on the wrx got 3 years out of them, still ton of tread left but they dont feel like cheater mode anymore, must have run out of the snow tire rubber and into the harder core. Have to order Nokains for this year.

After that long, the tires will be heat cycled out and not as grippy.

The first winter, the tires are awesome. The second winter, they're so-so. Third winter, you're thinking WTF these used to be good!

My procedure anymore is new tires in November, leave 'em on in the summer. They age out rapidly anyway, may as well get some miles out of them before scrapping.

There is a BIG difference between performance winter and true winter tires, in fact, it is larger than the difference between all-season and performance winter tires (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2009-winter-tire-test-comparison-tests). Performance winter tires also tend to wear out faster. For decent dry road handling, long wear and good (but not the best) snow performance the Michelin Xi3 looks good for you. Test results show that the Blizzak WS80 is better in the snow but it is doubtful that it will do as well as the Xi3 on dry roads. Make sure you go with as small diameter wheel and narrow width tire as possible, it makes a big difference!