Lets change it up: Audi URS4 vs A4 vs S4

Kind of like the Camaro 3rd gen vs 4th gen thread.

Lets say I wanted to get a bitchin' daily that could look nice in the summer (and be good for highway driving as I do about 30,000 miles per year). I've always had a love for Audi's, plus I've worked on VAG products for a loooooooooong time.

So, 1994 URS4 vs 2001 A4 vs 2001 S4.

The A4 gets the most bland rating of them all, but that's not really a bad thing. Lots of performance parts, great ride/handling considering it's a heavy turbocharged awd car, and they look pretty nice when done up modestly. Bonus, cheap! And I can make GOOD power for not much buck.

URS4, well, it's a URS4. It's a q-ship IMO, and it hits like a sledgehammer. Really, the only reason to get one is for the comfort, power, and GLORIOUS SOUND of the uncorked audi turbo 5 cylinder. Would have to import from the US.

The S4, well for one thing, it's the fastest of the bunch. For another, it can make ludicrous power for pennies. But it can nickel and dime a dude to death with maintenance and the engine bay is retardedly cramped. (referring to the TT V6, not the V8 which is still outside of my comfortable price range).

None of these will be used on track. We have winter 6-7 months of the year up here, so the awd is nice (but not necessary).

If i wanted to go a million miles an hour and make ludicrous power... i'd go with the URS4. I know the TT V6 S4 will make tons of power, but it'll cost more to do it, and will be a bigger pain in the ass to do it.

If i was really just looking for a bitchin' daily, i'd just get the 2001 A4. Preferably with 1.8T.

I've owned them all. If you need to carry American sized adults, the UrS is the only one with a decent back seat.

However, the UrS is also the hardest car to source parts for, body parts are NLA (so if you need a front bumper you're SOL) electrical faults are FAR more common on them and they suffer from old school turbo lag. Finding a good one that's been properly maintained is hard, find one that's been maintained and doesn't have 200k miles on it is near impossible. Plus a maintained one sells for big bucks.

The A4 is the lightest of them all, it handles the best. Easiest to work on. Tons of parts and aftermarket support. Make sure the control arms, timing belt/water pump have been done and electrics work.

The S4 is a bruiser. It's an awesome GT car that eats up the miles. The stock turbos like to blow and it's an engine out job to replace them. However, if you put the RS4 K04 turbos on, the car turns into a missile! It'll make an easy 450hp with those turbos and carry you in style. On the S4, check the turbos, timing belt/water pump and control arms.

I would always go with the URS4 but since I own a '93 I am also biased. Having experience maintaining a 2002 A4 and a 2002 A6 sport (same 2.7L TT engine) the A4 is likely the best bet for what you want to do. The URS4 is a great machine but if you are going for high mileage it is a losing battle starting out with something 20 years old. They have no issue going the distance but the ownership experience gets more and more like an old British sports car as you go. If you don't plan on doing the work yourself I would look for something newer as it always needs something.

The A4 will be the least exciting to drive but likely the least painful to own as well. Car feels a bit heavy for the 1.8t but drives very well and will knock down the highway miles well. As with either newer chassis there is the usual control arms, timing belt and water pump replacements and a few oddball electrical issues thrown in for fun. There is much less tracing of circuits and more bolt on part replacements which is nice over the URS4.

The 2.7L TT engine is amazing. That car pulls highway passes like nothing else but also flies under the radar well. I always hear about the threat of the turbos going, but have never actually seen a case of it. Not sure how much is true and how much is internet legend. Either way a good excuse for upgraded turbos, but plan on pulling the front end of the car off and lifting the engine a few inches to install. I passed on buying my Dad's well maintained 2.7 T with ~150k due to complexity and already owning another Audi but still question this decision at times.

Overall, for an enthusiast who is willing to deal with Audi ownership I would have to recommend something (either S4 or A6 sport) with the 2.7 L engine. The 5 cylinders are still my favorite, but you almost have to have another car on standby to deal with the maintenance of the older German cars.

-Matt

I loved my (A6, 6mt) 2.7L TT, but feared the impending doom of maintenance and sold it. Also, I drove that car way to fast on public roads. I've switched to slow cars now (Miata )

another biased opinion, I would choose the URS4.

the older audis were built like tanks compared to the newer variants, the 5cyl is easier to work on than the V6 and it's just a cooler car all around IMO. how many A4's do you see on an average day?? survey says too many. Sure, the S4 makes gobs of power but they are also climbing the age ladder and chances are, it's been flogged-o-plenty in it's young age. sure the UR has been aswell but I think it has a stronger backbone to take the abuse, I.E. 20v 5cyl, vs. that 5v V6 that requires a watchmaker to install valve keepers when the timing belt snaps. Just my opinion, the URS is the better car of the three, age aside.

I wouldn't buy the A4 -- too little displacement for a car that heavy, and the turbo doesn't help since all three options listed are turbo cars.

Do you have access to a lift? There's a lot of stuff you can't do to the B5 without one.

As for new turbos on the B5, personally I'd be tempted to skip the K04s and go with ATP's "eliminator" kit.

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-VVW-227&Category_Code=

Basically they made custom housings so that you can bolt Garrett internals up KKK manifolds, anything from a pair of 2560s up to 2871s. Not cheap, but a pair of K04s aren't exactly cheap either, and I wouldn't buy a used B5 S4 without budgeting for new turbos.

UrS4>B5S4

Nickel and dime you to death doesn't even describe the horrors you can uncover while trying to keep one in top shape. My Disco was a welcome change to low maintenance after I unloaded mine to an unwitting youngster with high hopes and dreams.

Another vote for UrS4.

That's the car I wanted, but since I couldn't find one, I bought a B5 1.8T. That car turned me off german cars. 6 years later, I still get the dark clouds of rage, when I think of that car. Slow, boring to drive and surprisingly unpractical. While an S4 would fix the slow part, it would still be a boring to drive, unpractical POS.

The UrS4 I drove felt boatish to me, and I'm sure they are a pain to maintain as well, but at least you get that great 5-cyl sound.

So, a URS4 like this? http://kelowna.en.craigslist.ca/cto/3883501415.html

I'm thinking about booking plane tickets if the seller gets back to me...

I hate to say this... but i really feel like the URS4s look awkward.

I much prefer the Audi 90 model.

I'll take mine with a URS4 driveline swap.

Swank Force One wrote: I hate to say this... but i really feel like the URS4s look awkward. I much prefer the Audi 90 model. I'll take mine with a URS4 driveline swap.

I think the problem is the big overhangs coupled with the teenie wheel arches. The solution (as with most things) are a nice fitment rim, coupled with some lowering.

I think it's the angles.... i hate how the fascia/bumper angle is. So they all look weird to me from the side.

The black one still looks strange. The red one is hawt, despite being red.

The B5 does a much better job aesthetically than the UrS4, IMHO. They only had to cram 3 cylinders in front of the front axle instead of 5, that combined with some stylistic de-emphasis has made the front overhang problem a lot better than it was.

Both of them need massive brake upgrades if you want to use them on track (I set them on fire shortly after that shot was taken above -- required complete pad & rotor replacement. The dealer didn't expect to be doing a prepaid service brake job at 6,000 miles...) For street, the B5 S4's brake system is fine -- did the UrS4 come with those funky UFO brakes?

Also, the B5 comes in Nogaro Blue, the UrS4 does not.

Never again. Loved my a4 turbo, plenty of power for the weight. Comfy, very nice daily driver. However the eat wheel bearings, and I hear they've got the control arms figured out, but no confirmation. I swear I was spending $800 every oil change cycle. Loved it, but hated it at the same time.

I don't know Audi's, but my buddy who's an experienced Audi tech says to avoid the 2.7 TT like the plague! That white S4 is gorgeous though!

So, that pearl white URS4 will probably be in my hands the next couple weeks... dude is going camping for a week as of this Friday, but I told him I'd like to drive out to BC to take a look at it on the Sunday after he gets back. Car is MINT (from his description, all the electronics work! ALL OF THEM!). And bone stock, his father owned in before him for years. Only 200,000kms.

I am pretty pumped, thanks GRM brethren!

I'd get a Porsche Carrera 4 with the AWD

All you guys saying that a B5S4 will nickel and dime more than an UrS4 need to put down the crack pipe.

I've owned 2 B5 S4's and currently own an allroad with the 2.7T. My UrS4 was FAR more unreliable, FAR more expensive to maintain and FAR harder to source parts for.

Yes, it was cool, but I was always fixing something on it. Both S4's and my current allroad have been rock solid.

And which one's come in wagon?

Jaynen wrote: And which one's come in wagon?

All of them did... just not here, because 'murica

I don't get the Audi Kool-Aid.. They are sure pretty to look at though..

HiTempguy wrote:

Jaynen wrote: And which one's come in wagon?

All of them did... just not here, because 'murica

The B5 S4 Avant was definitely sold here in the US, and I think the UrS4/S6 Avant was too. Numbers were small, even smaller if you want a manual.

The B6 and B7 S4 Avants were also sold in the US, so it's pretty much just the B8 Avant that we didn't get. Well, that and the various RS4 Avants, of which we saw none.

codrus wrote: The B5 S4 Avant was definitely sold here in the US, and I think the UrS4/S6 Avant was too. Numbers were small, even smaller if you want a manual. The B6 and B7 S4 Avants were also sold in the US, so it's pretty much just the B8 Avant that we didn't get. Well, that and the various RS4 Avants, of which we saw none.

I was mainly referring to any of the older Audi stuff that was fast. Are you about the B5? That'd be a wicked ride (direct competition with the Volvo V70R).

if i understand right, you're just going to use this car up over a period of a couple three years or so?

A4