Listening to the same music you grew up with, car edition.

Like a lot of humans, I listen to most of the same music I did when I was growing up, mainly high school. By proxy, I like the same cars that I liked in high school (late 80's/90's/early 00's). Which isn't altogether a problem on the surface, they were/are easy to work on, relatively inexpensive, and before they became very complicated computers on wheels. I buy them by choice.

Something that is difficult to reconcile with is safety. Newer vehicles are objectively safer when pitted against each other. That sled of a Volvo or Merc wagon from the 90's sure as hell looks solid, but it would get ripped to shreds in a collision with a modern vehicle, right? 

Is there a sweet spot with older, inexpensive used vehicles, and safety? 

You can always make a car handle better, stop better, and work on your own skills, but you can't fix things out of your control. Situations where you are going to meet the blunt end of that Escalade in your full bodied Euro wagon. 

Who's got war stories from their encounters with modern cars and their "vintage" rides? 

It's a rolling 20-25 year window, it seems. Everyone thinks the golden era was right about the same age when values for good survivors pick up. I'm sure that's unrelated :)

My music is 80s punk, my cars are my age (1970ish). I would not want to get hit by a modern vehicle, my music still smokes modern crap.

I would say the cars from your 80's/90's/00's era are still pretty darn safe.  They have safety harnesses, airbags, crush zones and so on (compare them to the cars of my youth where seat belts were optional).  It's a calculated risk anytime you leave your house, there's always going to be something could kill you whether it's getting hit by a semi truck, running into a bridge abutment or flying off a bridge into a river.

Keith Tanner said:

It's a rolling 20-25 year window, it seems. Everyone thinks the golden era was right about the same age when values for good survivors pick up. I'm sure that's unrelated :)

There are times when complexity significantly ramps up, although it varies by manufacturer. Tesla was making locked-down technological nightmares at the same time almost '90s-simple Toyobarus were in production.

The 2 major ramp-up points I'd say are switching to EFI in the late '80s (at which point you need a code reader and spare injectors & sensors to be able to fix engine fueling, vs. a screwdriver), and making Internet-connected locked-down iPhones on wheels which is mostly happening right now, although Tesla and BMW (and John Deere) got an early start.

Some technology effectively simplified ownership though, I think getting rid of points ignition and then distributors in general was totally worth it. I even generally prefer EFI even though carbs do have an advantage in roadside fixability/rig-ability.

In reply to GameboyRMH :

EFI wasn't a single point, though. The EFI in my '85 Honda is far more crude than the EFI in my '90 Miata, and the OBD-II cars are far further ahead. Look at a 2016 Miata and you've got crazy complexity, further removed from a 1996 car than the 1996 engine is from the 1966 carbureted lump in my Cadillac. And that's not even taking the Cadillac HVAC into account :)

But even that '85 EFI is far simpler than the vacuum line encrusted carb in my '86 Subaru - that thing was a pneumatic computer with an incredible number of potential failure points. Plus there was a lot of increase in the complexity of the mechanisms as time went on and the engine computer took over more and more. VVT, DBW, DI, far more feedback from sensors - I don't view it as a point but as a continuous slope. The introduction of EFI might have seemed scary for those who were used to adjusting fueling on the side of the road with a screwdriver, but it was actually a step backwards in complexity.

Don't need a code reader for that 1990 Miata, all you need is a paperclip to read codes :)

My music taste has changed. My taste in cars has changed. I evolve?

In reply to buzzboy :

I hung out with traditional country song writers and musicians which lead to more of an appreciation for more complex, soulful tracks.  Something similar lead me to sell my basket case Trans Am, keep my Miata, then end up with an old Civic on the side (that one was by accident but I'm not mad about it).

High school grad 1973 (did not attend August reunion – wayyy too much $$)

Music: 40s – 80s, Sinatra to rock of various types. No rap / hip hop, very little country. Has not changed – unlikely it will.

Cars etc (street and race): 55 Ford Customline cruiser project (oldest). 64 C10 tow vehicle when re-motored, 67/8 Wards Riverside vintage 250cc road race project, 68/9 Wards Mojave swap in progress to CB550 motor, 69 VW Class 11 Off road race car, 70 Fiat 850 SCCA H-Production, 74 Dodge W100, 78 Subaru wagon (support for VW), 81 Toyota Corolla wagon, 84 Toyota pickup,

First injected car – 1984 Volvo 245 (has VD),  96 Ford Ranger – newest until July, 00 Ford Ford Econobox ZX2 S/R

I prefer cars without computers.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

The EFI in my '85 Honda is far more crude than the EFI in my '90 Miata,

and that's saying something.  When I see one of those early Miatas and how crude/basic the engine controls are, I want to hunt around to see where I can adjust the point dwell.

https://www.wired.com/video/watch/watch-the-difference-20-years-has-made-to-car-crash-safety

The Rover 100/Metro isn't a great start point - around 20 years back I was behind one which had an offset head on with an E30, and the E30 munched through it.   Passenger cabin on the E30 was basically intact, doors opened.  The Rover was pretty much flat back to the bulkhead, as I ran towards it I was bracing myself for what I'd see inside, somehow driver was mostly intact, pulled him out through the passenger door.  I can only imagine he pulled his legs up, or maybe the force of the impact shifted him back with his seat.  But yeah, 80s stuff compared to anything made in the last 10/15 years isn't going to fair well.

It's a constant discussion in my head, I *like* stuff from the 90s, but as I have both kids with me a good 50% of the time, safety makes me hesitant (much more so here than it would elsewhere).

My old British stuff is unsafe as heck compared to anything modern enough to have side intrusion beams etc., but I still enjoy them.  If I dwelt on the thin aluminum door skin between me and the next bumbling behemoth, I'd probably never drive them on the street again!

I used to update/improve my race cars using more modern technology and some of it worked and some of it didn't.  I implemented a knock sensing system using a GM sensor and an MSD developed read out, so with another MSD unit that allowed me to adjust timing advance from the cockpit, I could go out in practice and find the sweet spot on that day with that fuel for maximum safe advance. I feel that gave me a slight advantage over others that just set timing by rote.

OTOH, going to an optical replacement for a point set (Pertronix) didn't work out as well - it failed in a race and although I sent ot back to Pertronix they declared there was nothing wrong with it. I went back to points (special Lucas high bounce point sets meant for Cooper S) and never had any ignition issues after that.

I agree with those who said that fuel injection is a great advance in mixture delivery, and would have implemented that on some of my older cars had it been legal (Lucas had injection back in the 1950s, but wisely sold it to Maserati to test out before using it on any British cars - they finally installed it on one for the first time in 1968 - the TR5).  They did use it on some of the 1950s Jaguar race cars.

In September 2017 I got rear ended at just over 30 mph in my Volvo 940 Turbo. The car in front was the white SUV in the background whose bumper was well above mine so my bumper did nothing, the airbag didn't even go off. The body was tweaked so that the front left and right rear doors couldn't be opened. I'm far in front because the engine was still running and I was trying to get it off the road into the next lot but it died there.