Live thread: exclusive look at the Nürburgring 24

Sorry for not many posts today. Been busy driving this. 

and getting this:

more talk when I get back to my room. 

So, recapping, Dale Lomas at Rent4Ring mentioned he had a little surprise for me in the borrowed ride department. As it turns out I had the pleasure of taking the first customer laps of one of Rent4Ring's new fleet of four-cylinder Toyota Supras, which was an utter delight, even in its fairly unsorted form. I'll bug Dale to hop in the thread and give you the rundown on the specs, which are fairly impressive as R4R augments their cars for performance and durability. Lomas says their typical approach is to provide their customers with "way more chassis and brakes than motor, because you just don't need a lot of motor here to scare yourself silly, and in lots of ways too much power dulls the learning curve."

The in-track portion of Motorsport-Akademie's licensing program mandates 16 laps minimum, with eight of those coming behind an instructor car in lead-follow exercises. It should be noted as well that this isn't a driving school, it's a Nurburgring school. You're expected to show up with some skill behind the wheel and a capable car, and Motorsport-Akademie handles the task of applying those skills to one of the world's most complex race tracks.

How complex? Well, there's something like 120 identifiable corners, but the actual number of control inputs is nearly unmeasurable. I was also fortunate enough to have Dale Lomas do some right-seating during my course today, and having in-car coaching from a guy who estimates he's done north of 20,000 laps on the 'ring, and his input certainly turbocharged my learning curve. There's just stuff I never would have figured out on my own, because I never would have even thought to try. Much of the complexity of the Nurburgring lies in the three-dimensionality of it all. Nearly every corner is uphill, downhill, on camber, off camber, has a changing surface, of some mix-and-match combination of several of those factors. There's almost zero "traditional" racetrack corners, and in reality the thing is really much closer to the design aesthetic of an autocross, in that no corners exist on their own. Every corner is some variation of compromise and setup for what follows, and that goes on for nearly 13 miles. 

I'll check in again soon, but I badly need a shower. And if you're looiing at this post and there's no pictures, it's because I'm writing it on my laptop and uploading pictures from my phone. The internet here isn't great. 

Taking an interesting tour with our friends from Falken. More cool stuff from this when I'm not typing with my thumbs. 

Each car in the 24 is allowed 29 sets of tires for practice, qualifying, and the race. But not a specific 29 sets, just 29 sets total. So each Falken team car has close to double that amount available so they can choose the correct compound for the conditions. 

Tires get preheated before hitting the track. Many series have banned preheating, but the unique requirements of the Nurburgring, with its punishing vertical loads and oscillations, means a lot of heat going into tires on track due to both friction and sidewall flex. Without preheating, pressures would have to be set so low at ambient temperatures that safety on the out lap would be an issue. 

And let's all wish Falken a happy 40th anniversary 

POV: You're a media member at the Nurburgring. 
 

This is the TUV tower, it houses the media room, race control, and provides access to corporate and luxury suites. Media is only allowed on one floor, and you can probably guess which that is. 

 

when you exit the elevator, the Ravenol press room greets you. 

The nice folks behind the desk are here to help. 

Sometimes there's a dog. They like scratches. 

The food is godawful, but there's a barista, so that's cool. 

You can rent an ample locker for 20 bucks (deposit). 

the room itself is large and spacious, and used for general media work, press conference and driver meetings. some seats are officially reserved, mostly for team and manufacturer media reps, but some seats people just try and put their name on like it's their third grade desk. Right now we're getting ready for the Historic driver meeting. 
 

This guy got bored and tried to put on Rick & Morty.  

Up front is where important people sit and talk. I'm usually in the back. 

Now you're an honorary journalist! Congratulations, you get a lousy baloney and cucumber sandwich. 

 

I hope you enjoyed your time as a journalist. And don't worry, even if the food in the media center blows, the world's best fries are at the concession right across the way. 

Thanks for the "behind the scenes" access and info.

JG Pasterjak said:

Sorry for not many posts today. Been busy driving this. 

and getting this:

more talk when I get back to my room. 

Suzuki Swift?? Is that what they look like now? What is that car?

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

JG Pasterjak said:

Sorry for not many posts today. Been busy driving this. 

and getting this:

more talk when I get back to my room. 

Suzuki Swift?? Is that what they look like now? What is that car?

No that's a Supra. I was originally entered in a Swift, but Dale Lina's at Rent4Ring thought I'd have more fun being the Guinea pig for his new fleet of rental Supras. I was the first non-employee to get some laps in one. 10/10 can recommend. 

Not every car is a GT3 car

It's first qualifying, so the Hyundai TCRcteams are seasoning brakes

and comparing notes

JG Pasterjak said:

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

JG Pasterjak said:

Sorry for not many posts today. Been busy driving this. 

and getting this:

more talk when I get back to my room. 

Suzuki Swift?? Is that what they look like now? What is that car?

No that's a Supra. I was originally entered in a Swift, but Dale Lina's at Rent4Ring thought I'd have more fun being the Guinea pig for his new fleet of rental Supras. I was the first non-employee to get some laps in one. 10/10 can recommend. 

I like it, whatever it is. I still think it's cool they rent Swifts at Nurburgring. So much better if the track really gets that narrow in places.

Touring cars are neither for touring, nor are they cars. Discuss. 

You might think you're cool, but are you "bolt your front suspension directly to your engine" cool? Didn't think so. 

Its amazing to think these things are 20+ years old and flaunting this kind of tech. 

Jeebus, be careful out there.  Just tuned into a livestream to see some silver sedan in a lower class hit the Armco barrier and then roll two times.  The bad part is that apparently there was no safety netting in the window (or it somehow became detached?) and you could see his head was momentarily outside of the door/window  frame with each roll.  The driver is out and walking, thankfully. 

ConiglioRampante said:

Jeebus, be careful out there.  Just tuned into a livestream to see some silver sedan in a lower class hit the Armco barrier and then roll two times.  The bad part is that apparently there was no safety netting in the window (or it somehow became detached?) and you could see his head was momentarily outside of the door/window  frame with each roll.  The driver is out and walking, thankfully. 

Weirdly, window nets aren't really a thing here. Some cars have them, but I don't think it's an across the board reqirement. But you have to run with the window up (glass with film on it or plastic. I just got back to my room and didn't see the crash, but I'm guessing the window popped out of the frame during the crash and that led to further potential disaster.

Safety is really kind of weird here. Like, everything has to be FiA certified, so just a Snell or SFI certification won't cut it. And not all manufacturers submit for FiA testing, because it's expensive and no better than Snell/SFI certification. So your helmet or suit might not cut it over here if it's from Simpson or Bell or Racequip or other US-centric manufacturers. Open-face helmets are fine, though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

In reply to ConiglioRampante :

I saw that too in the classic race qualifying, that was the end of that E30!

Can you get photos of the Manta?

jb229 said:

Can you get photos of the Manta?

Yeah I wanted to yesterday but I didn't find their garage in time and didn't see the car until they were heading out on track. I'll take care of you, though.

I'm also headed to the paddock to track this thing down right after Historic qualifying.

N-achi roku 

This is a bucket list event for me one day. I am aiming for possibly for 2025, gives me a bit to get everything sorted out at home.

Looking forward to more updates!!

DjGreggieP said:

This is a bucket list event for me one day. 

This and Le Mans for sure (more so for the Le Mans classic).

Long shot of a clothes line with some under garments.  Not something I expected to see during a race broadcast.

ConiglioRampante said:

JG Pasterjak said:

Jumping all over the place here, but it looks like I might get some sit down time with Albert Biermann Friday or Saturday. Biermann was the guy poached from BMW M that pretty much put Hyundai N on the map. He's now "officially" retired but still part of Hyundai as a "special consultant."

What do you want me to ask him?

Ask?  I'd like you to thank him on my behalf for bringing well-sorted enthusiast vehicles to the market that don't cost a kidney or two.

One question, what does the N brand have in store for the inevitably electrified future?

Circling back around to this, I had a chance to spend a few minutes with Mr. Biermann today. The first thing I did was to read him this post, and he was like "Yeah, dude, I saw that. I lurk on your board all the time."

No, not really, but he was quite pleased to hear this as he just reiterated that this was literally the founding mission for the N division, and hearing comments like this just reinforces how precisely they were able to stay on that target.

My first real question followed up on our first meeting, which was at Thunderhill several years ago when Hyundai was launching the Veloster N and introducing the N division to America. Now, Herr Biermann is preparing for retirement, but not until the division launches the Ioniq 5 N, and even then, it will be a fairly soft retirement , as he'll be staying on as a consultant to the division. My question was, now that he's facing the final chapter of his time leading N, does he feel like he won. Like he accomplished everything he set out to when he took over the reigns all those years ago. "I think what I'm most proud of is that we never had to compromise our vision for N, or to ever change our target. We always had the people and technology to produce exactly the cars we set out to produce, and that technology has trickled down into the mainstream Hyundai products and helped make them better driving cars as well."

Indeed, we've seen the birth of a brand, and what was once seemingly inconceivable in the days of Excels and SCoupes is now a mainstream performance division with a fanbase, and some absolutely dynamite cars. mark Scroggs has been tearing up SCCA Solo and Pro Solo D Street competition this year, frequently displacing the Civic Type R and the newest generation of Toyota 86 twins from the top spots at major events in his Elantra N. Not coincidentally, the Elantra N is probably the single car that I get the most DMs about, with people asking for recommendations, or just wanting to pick my brain for driving impressions. The Veloster N may have opened the door, but the Elantra really seems to have ripped it right off the hinges.

Biermann isn't immune to seeing how not only the cars perform, but how the community embraces them. "I walk around races and you see people with N gear on just like they wear shirts and hats of other brands, and that's nice. But I really love going to N meets and seeing how different people enjoy their cars." Biermann says, while recounting his visit to an N meet he attended recently in Australia. "There was every type of enthusiast. There were the ones who just wanted to get out on track, and that's all they cared about, but also people who wanted to show off thir cars and talk to other N owners, to young ladies with N-themed makeup and N blue eyeshadow and nails. And maybe some of them were enthusiasts who identified with different brands before, and now identify with N because we appealed to what they wanted with the performance at the value we offer, but maybe some of them weren't even car people before, and N appealed to them in a way that they wanted to be part of this."

Before we parted, we had to talk about the electrified future, as Biermann's final project as the head of the N division appears to be the forthcoming Ioniq 5 N. While Biermann clearly has some mixed feelings about the state of electric cars as they currenly exist, he's also clearly enthusiastic about the Ioniq N. He also had very specific goals for it to hit before he'd allow it to see the light of day. "This had to be a car that you would be able to drive on track. And you can drive any EV on track, but our goal was something you could actually do a track day with with few compromises." Biermann said. he laid out their goals, which he described as "20, 20, 20." Run a twenty minute session on track, charge for twenty minutes, run another twenty minute session. As to how close this goal is to reaching reality, Biermann reports "I think we're there."

His criticisms of EVs were not uncommon to those of many enthusiasts, though, and N's path around thes criticisms was an interesting one. "EVs can be very fast, but they can also be quite sterile." Biermann said. "So much of our joy of driving a performance car comes from our emotions, and so many of those emotions are triggered not just by pure performance, but by sounds and feelings and feedback and interacting with the car." Absent much of that with an electric drivetrain, N decided simply to manufacture it. Sounds are amplified, vibration and feedback are sent into the driver compartment, a "shifting" algorithm, controlled by steering wheel mounted paddles mimics DCT behavior, all to heighten the involvement of the driver. Biermann admits this is technically trickery, but has an interesting response to that admission. "When these systems are activated, it's actually slower around a track, but these systems are available to produce an emotional response, and let you feel the car on a deeper level. And they are 'fake'," Biermann admits, with air quotes in full effect, "But if the sounds we can make and the feel and feedback we give produces the same emotional response in the driver as a combustion car, because they stimulate familiar senses to combustion cars, is that really fake?" It's a good question, and probably the jumping off point for a much deeper philosophical discussion of the relationship of perception and reality, but I'm willing to give Biermann the benefit of the doubt on this one. Look, there's already a switch in our car we can hit to hear cool sounds, and it's called the radio. So is there really a difference in hitting a switch to hear Van Halen and hitting a switch to hear a mechanical symphony conducted in real time by the operating parameters of your car? I'm not sure there is.

to follow up on some other N-related questions in the thread, factory performance parts for the US have been a tough sell, and may not show up any time soon like they do in the European market. But Biermann is very proud of the aftermarket's embrace of the N cars, citing that as a true milestone in the legitimacy of a performance brand. He did find some enjoyable irony in the fact that the true mark of building a great car was that people wanted to modify it, but he appreciates that as just another level of enthusiasm and commitment.

And some Hyundai N performance events should be happening in the US this year. I think I heard Laguna and Road Atlanta. I should be able to confirm that tomorrow or at least get some additional info.

In reply to JG Pasterjak 

Sorry, "Ah gots ta know", is that mayo & raw onions?