MacPherson Camber adjustment postions

I'm looking to get more camber on my Fusion Sport for when I move up to STH (2017 2.7L EB V6 AWD), Ford doesn't provide any camber adjustment.

 What are the pros and cons of slotting the strut to knuckle mount  and adjusting the camber at the upper strut mount as related to suspension performance? I know slotting the upper mount allows for easier adjustment and the lower mount eats up some of the wheel to strut space.

No one makes camber/caster plates for the CD4 2nd gen fusion platform, so everything will be DIY.  My initial idea is to slot the strut to knuckle mount for camber adjustment and to slot the upper strut mount for caster adjustment.

Slotting the upper mount won't in all likelyhood yield more then a tenth or two of caster adjustment.

Using a camber bolt in the upper knuckle hole is a better method then slotting, it's less likely to slip under hard cornering loads.

arthuruscg said:

No one makes camber/caster plates for the CD4 2nd gen fusion platform, so everything will be DIY.  My initial idea is to slot the strut to knuckle mount for camber adjustment and to slot the upper strut mount for caster adjustment.

How different is the top strut mount on the Fusion from the Mustang?  It seems strange that they'd blank-slate the Mac Strut top mount on two similar weight vehicles.  Hell, BMW uses the same strut mount for most of the entire lineup.  

Maybe check the focus too. The Fusion is the Mondeo in Europe if I remember right, maybe you can find something over there?

JesseWolfe said:

Slotting the upper mount won't in all likelyhood yield more then a tenth or two of caster adjustment.

 

Using a camber bolt in the upper knuckle hole is a better method then slotting, it's less likely to slip under hard cornering loads.

^ What he said. Have a look at these:

https://www.steeda.com/steeda-ford-fusion-front-adjustable-camber-bolts-2017

I'm not going to slot the strut tower, that's not allowed in STH, I'm thinking about modify the strut mount itself by removing the integrated nuts and slotting the mount and making a Ring shaped, this should let me max out the caster adjustment based on the Diamond shaped center hole.

The camber bolts have a tq spec of 125ft-lbs while the stock bolts are 173ft-lbs. That's a substantial reduction in clamping force, and I would think it would make the camber bolt more likely to slip.

The S550 Mustang mount is clocked about 15° off and the S197 is a 4 bolt design while the Fusion is 3 bolt.  The Focus appears to have a Triangle shaped top mount, compared to the Fusion D shaped. I haven't measured the bolt spacing difference yet, but I also haven't found any that offer caster adjustment.

arthuruscg said:

The camber bolts have a tq spec of 125ft-lbs while the stock bolts are 173ft-lbs. That's a substantial reduction in clamping force, and I would think it would make the camber bolt more likely to slip.

You're over thinking this IMO.  Fastener torque is not always about clamping force, often it's about getting the right amount of stretch on the bolt so that it will hold fast and not spontaneously loosen.

Camber bolts are, by necessity, smaller than the standard bolts.  So if you have M12 bolts normally, the camber bolt will probably be M10.  An M10 fastener reaches its happy place with less torque, so voila the torque spec is lower.

I will say that slotted mounting holes between the strut and the upright are a pain in the ass to deal with and will, almost without question, slip (unless you have it bottomed out in the "max negative camber" position).  My coilovers annoyingly have slotted upper holes, and they are slotted enough that if i max them out my slicks rub on the strut body.  Guess what ends up happening at like every other autocross...

I think you’re going to have the best luck getting meaningful camber by adapting a plate from a different application.

arthuruscg said:

I'm not going to slot the strut tower, that's not allowed in STH

Slotting Bolt holes is fully legal in ST classes. You can't change the center tower clearance hole though, Just the outer bolt holes.

I'm not sure why you are wanting to run this car in STH, you're taking a knife into an even deeper gunfight than you have now in GS. And you'll ruin a lot of what makes it a civil and nice car to own otherwise.

JesseWolfe said:

Slotting the upper mount won't in all likelyhood yield more then a tenth or two of caster adjustment.

 

Using a camber bolt in the upper knuckle hole is a better method then slotting, it's less likely to slip under hard cornering loads.

I have had my shock towers slotted on my rx7 champcar for about 10 years.  They never moved.

wvumtnbkr said:

JesseWolfe said:

Slotting the upper mount won't in all likelyhood yield more then a tenth or two of caster adjustment.

 

Using a camber bolt in the upper knuckle hole is a better method then slotting, it's less likely to slip under hard cornering loads.

I have had my shock towers slotted on my rx7 champcar for about 10 years.  They never moved.

There is a major difference in slotting a strut tower bolt hole and slotting on the base of the struts themselves where they attach to the knuckle

In reply to spacecadet :

Yep.  I misread that.  Any time I have tried to keep slotted strut bolts tight, they slip.  Cam bolts work well for this.

I slotted the strut then installed washers and welded the washers into place once it was aligned.

bentwrench said:

I slotted the strut then installed washers and welded the washers into place once it was aligned.

I drew up some “slugs” to lock out my slotted holes, but so far have been unable to find someone willing to machine them for me.  Same idea… less permanent.

In reply to spacecadet :

I can't afford a project/ autocross car so, I'm doing with my DD. I'm not going to go full bore with it, but the other mods I want to do (IC and Tune) will push me into STH.

Suspension wise, I think I'm thinking of going with Steeda lowering springs or making the stock struts into coilovers with modest spring rates. I've been putting off lowering the car because it will push me into STH.

The biggest annoyance  is the skinny little 245 tires that AWD cars in STH is limited to.

bentwrench said:

I slotted the strut then installed washers and welded the washers into place once it was aligned.

Humm, instead of welding the washers, I could weld small stops on the strut and use the keyed bolt and washer setups like are often found on control arms.

arthuruscg said:

In reply to spacecadet :

I can't afford a project/ autocross car so, I'm doing with my DD. I'm not going to go full bore with it, but the other mods I want to do (IC and Tune) will push me into STH.

Suspension wise, I think I'm thinking of going with Steeda lowering springs or making the stock struts into coilovers with modest spring rates. I've been putting off lowering the car because it will push me into STH.

The biggest annoyance  is the skinny little 245 tires that AWD cars in STH is limited to.

Do the mods you want to the car. I can tell you how much time and money you're wasting until I'm blue in the face and you'll not change.

The best way you can spend money right now is in an Evo school Phase 1 and getting more seat time.

Those will get you a better return on investment than anything you want to waste time on with the suspension.

arthuruscg said:

The biggest annoyance  is the skinny little 245 tires that AWD cars in STH is limited to.

LOL, I can run a 265 but can only fit a 215. FWIW, I slotted my strut mounting holes and used camber bolts and achieved a little over -2.5 up front. No issues in a year of hard driving.

spacecadet said:

arthuruscg said:

In reply to spacecadet :

I can't afford a project/ autocross car so, I'm doing with my DD. I'm not going to go full bore with it, but the other mods I want to do (IC and Tune) will push me into STH.

Suspension wise, I think I'm thinking of going with Steeda lowering springs or making the stock struts into coilovers with modest spring rates. I've been putting off lowering the car because it will push me into STH.

The biggest annoyance  is the skinny little 245 tires that AWD cars in STH is limited to.

Do the mods you want to the car. I can tell you how much time and money you're wasting until I'm blue in the face and you'll not change.

The best way you can spend money right now is in an Evo school Phase 1 and getting more seat time.

Those will get you a better return on investment than anything you want to waste time on with the suspension.

 

Oh I know my skills are no where near the top 1/3 of the field at Nationals. Some of the mods are for drag racing. I'm aiming for mid 12s next year.

There's a few guys getting close to 11s but the tubo swaps and hpfp would bump me in to SP.