Manual Hatch DD Quest

I have to go drive some of these, but here's my list currently.  Please tell why I do or do not want to own one of these cars:

1) Golf GTI, 4 Door, Manual

2) Focus ST

3) Audi A3 (circa 2012), Manual FWD

4) ???

I want manual, fun, and some practicality.  Needs to be able to carry odd stuff once in a while.  Will be used to transport mountain bikes as well (hitch rack).  This will be my only car.  I have access to a garage once in a while, but on the regular I do not have a garage and will not be working on the car myself on the regular.  I could schedule a day to do a suspension upgrade, or install a part or two.  Tune, tires, or mild susp seem plausible.  Track time is possible, but not likely.

Sub $20k is target.  Mid teens preferable, so in the case of something with maintenance needs I can cover those costs (looking at you, VW/Audi).

Mazda 3
Subaru Impreza

Your options are a tragically short list that gets really limited the newer you get.

BoulderG said:

Mazda 3
Subaru Impreza

Your options are a tragically short list that gets really limited the newer you get.

Not interested in an Impreza for a number of reasons, the first 10 of which are:  reliability.  #11 is:  not really "fun"

Mazda 3 might make the list.  However, a 2.5 6spd is very similar to hot-hatch money, so at the moment I'm interested in something a little more spicy.  I do recognize that it might be the most ownership friendly option though.

Make sure you fit comfortably in the Focus.  I felt cramped spending a week driving one across the country and I wouldn't own one because of it.  Your mileage may vary, of course.

If I had a bit more free cash and a bit less "I don't know about owning a VW", I would look for an '18 or so Golf Sportwagen with the 1.8t.  Whatever the last is that gets that motor and a manual trans.  That's what I had considered replacing my Suzuki SX4 with but decided to save the money for the time being as the SX4 really doesn't need to be replaced at this time.

We had a local with a Focus ST that tried tracking it. It would go into limp mode every 3-4 laps on track due to heat. I don't know if that's a problem with all the ST cars or if his had issues. It might be worth looking into. 

Edit: It could also be due to being in the heat of the south so maybe not such a problem up north in cooler weather. 

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

Make sure you fit comfortably in the Focus.  I felt cramped spending a week driving one across the country and I wouldn't own one because of it.  Your mileage may vary, of course.

I've owned a Focus ST and a Focus RS. My ST had the "base" seats that I thought were very comfortable. The RS comes standard with the Recaro seats (optional on the ST)- I found the Recaro's to be terribly uncomfortable. The rake is overly steep, the lower seat bolsters were very intrusive and overall they were rubbish for commuting. Great for holding you in the seat on track, but garbage for a daily. 
 

If I was looking at getting another ST, I would absolutely seek out a car with the base seats. 

Volvo C30? Accepts a bunch of parts from the Euro Ford Focus we never got here, so you can turn it into a pseudo-RS clone in different clothes if you want. Doesn't rust like the Mazda version, pretty good documentation around the internet for most work, reliable powertrain.

Add Honda Civic Sport to the list? 

02Pilot said:

Volvo C30? Accepts a bunch of parts from the Euro Ford Focus we never got here, so you can turn it into a pseudo-RS clone in different clothes if you want. Doesn't rust like the Mazda version, pretty good documentation around the internet for most work, reliable powertrain.

What is the door length like on these?  One of the reasons I got rid of my Veloster is that the driver's side (single) door is huge, and a complete pain in the ass.

David S. Wallens said:

Add Honda Civic Sport to the list? 

Hmm.  I should probably consider it.  It has potential, even though its pretty not-spicy in factory trim.  They are like mid 15 second cars right?  The power:weight is dangerously close to my Kia Soul 

Also by far the biggest car on the list.

David S. Wallens said:

Add Honda Civic Sport to the list? 

Came to post this. I'd buy one right now for a daily if I had the budget.

May not be relevant to your interests, but the 10th generation civic sport hatchback is also the current ruler of it's class in autocross.

Toyman! said:

We had a local with a Focus ST that tried tracking it. It would go into limp mode every 3-4 laps on track due to heat. I don't know if that's a problem with all the ST cars or if his had issues. It might be worth looking into. 

Edit: It could also be due to being in the heat of the south so maybe not such a problem up north in cooler weather. 

Good point, but I think this is pretty typical of turbo hatches that aren't either Type R or N.  Ive heard the GTI or Golf R will go into limp mode with a quickness, so will a Fiesta ST.  I'm not sure its a huge factor for me as track time is unlikely.  If it does happen there is probably a path to correct the cooling issues on all of these cars.

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

Make sure you fit comfortably in the Focus.  I felt cramped spending a week driving one across the country and I wouldn't own one because of it.  Your mileage may vary, of course.

I'll investigate this.  I had a sedan as a rental at one point and I do remember the console being oddly intrusive.  I'm like 6ft/185 and fairly lean so I generally fit ok in just about anything.

I am super biased and possibly not in a good way but Chevy Sonic.  Dirt cheap to buy, dirt cheap to maintain, the few problems they have are super easy and cheap to permanent fix, not fast but fun to drive in stock form, cheap to upgrade, great on gas and plenty of room for a small car.

Civic sport or GTI would be top of my list. Hard to beat the GTI for the amount of space you get inside of of them.  FCP Euro has a great buyers guide video on the MK7 GTI that could help you narrow down a year and trim. 

ProDarwin said:

02Pilot said:

Volvo C30? Accepts a bunch of parts from the Euro Ford Focus we never got here, so you can turn it into a pseudo-RS clone in different clothes if you want. Doesn't rust like the Mazda version, pretty good documentation around the internet for most work, reliable powertrain.

What is the door length like on these?  One of the reasons I got rid of my Veloster is that the driver's side (single) door is huge, and a complete pain in the ass.

Not bad. They're pretty compact overall. I couldn't find the actual door length, but the whole car is 4.26m/13.8ft long. For proportions:

So, if Mazda3 is high on the list, why not the spicy one? Mazdaspeed3 checks all those boxes. They're getting a bit long in the tooth, but I've only had more fun in one hot hatch and THAT car does not check any of the boxes. 

Mndsm said:

So, if Mazda3 is high on the list, why not the spicy one? Mazdaspeed3 checks all those boxes. They're getting a bit long in the tooth, but I've only had more fun in one hot hatch and THAT car does not check any of the boxes. 

Basically for the reason you stated.  Long in the tooth.  I love the Mazdaspeed 3, but Ive been told that given their age and mileage now they are probably not the best fit for someone who doesnt have the ability to work on one regularly.

I love that they have a true LSD.  Nothing else mentioned does except the GTI, and only in the manual PP variant (??)

ProDarwin said:

David S. Wallens said:

Add Honda Civic Sport to the list? 

Hmm.  I should probably consider it.  It has potential, even though its pretty not-spicy in factory trim.  They are like mid 15 second cars right?  The power:weight is dangerously close to my Kia Soul 

Also by far the biggest car on the list.

True, not spicy like a Civic Si or Type R but, FWIW, successful in H Street autocross. 

Do you add a Mini to your list? 

David S. Wallens said:

ProDarwin said:

David S. Wallens said:

Add Honda Civic Sport to the list? 

Hmm.  I should probably consider it.  It has potential, even though its pretty not-spicy in factory trim.  They are like mid 15 second cars right?  The power:weight is dangerously close to my Kia Soul 

Also by far the biggest car on the list.

True, not spicy like a Civic Si or Type R but, FWIW, successful in H Street autocross. 

Do you add a Mini to your list? 

Which Mini would I add?  I'll be honest I'm lost with the flavors of Mini at the moment.

Whats the slighty-longer-than-regular Mini, with boost?  Clubman S?  Is that reliable?

ProDarwin said:

Mndsm said:

So, if Mazda3 is high on the list, why not the spicy one? Mazdaspeed3 checks all those boxes. They're getting a bit long in the tooth, but I've only had more fun in one hot hatch and THAT car does not check any of the boxes. 

Basically for the reason you stated.  Long in the tooth.  I love the Mazdaspeed 3, but Ive been told that given their age and mileage now they are probably not the best fit for someone who doesnt have the ability to work on one regularly.

I love that they have a true LSD.  Nothing else mentioned does except the GTI, and only in the manual PP variant (??)

Ah yes, I forget not everyone is comfortable with questionable cars that may or may not strand them like I am. Carry on. 

A manual 3 door Yaris is more fun than it deserves to be. Within that budget you could 2zz swap and add a limited slip. 

I'll sell you a BMW E36 MCompact. 240hp, 5spd, rwd, door. Perfect hot hatch

Another vote for a Mazda3. If used is ok, the 2014-2018 generation is fun and has more cargo space than the newer ones. My '18 has the 2.0, which is about 30 HP less spicy than the 2.5, but it's a willing mill and the 6 speed is a joy. 59,000 miles of ownership so far, just replaced the OEM rolling stones with some sticky rubber. MPG took a hit, but I'm perfectly happy averaging 35 instead of 37 for the extra grip. Planning on installing some Raybestos brake pads at the 60k oil change. 

ProDarwin said:

David S. Wallens said:

ProDarwin said:

David S. Wallens said:

Add Honda Civic Sport to the list? 

Hmm.  I should probably consider it.  It has potential, even though its pretty not-spicy in factory trim.  They are like mid 15 second cars right?  The power:weight is dangerously close to my Kia Soul 

Also by far the biggest car on the list.

True, not spicy like a Civic Si or Type R but, FWIW, successful in H Street autocross. 

Do you add a Mini to your list? 

Which Mini would I add?  I'll be honest I'm lost with the flavors of Mini at the moment.

Whats the slighty-longer-than-regular Mini, with boost?  Clubman S?  Is that reliable?

There are 5 flavors, all have a regular, S and John Cooper Works versions:

1. 2-Door hatch
2. 4-Door hatch
3. Clubman (extra long 4-door hatch)
4. Countryman (like a mini CUV)
5. Convertible

Reliability went way up with the latest generation (from 2013 on) as they have BMW designed engines in them.  Regarding size, the 2-door has a 5" shorter wheelbase than a new GTI, the 4-door hatch is about 2" shorter.  Clubman is about 2" longer than a GTI.

-Rob