Manual Hatch DD Quest

ProDarwin said:

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

Make sure you fit comfortably in the Focus.  I felt cramped spending a week driving one across the country and I wouldn't own one because of it.  Your mileage may vary, of course.

I'll investigate this.  I had a sedan as a rental at one point and I do remember the console being oddly intrusive.  I'm like 6ft/185 and fairly lean so I generally fit ok in just about anything.

This is exactly the issue I had.  It felt like the console was way too into the space where my right knee wanted to be.  I'm 6'5" and not much heavier than you and it was just.... no thanks, not again.  

Folks are mentioning the C30 but keep in mind that they are a bit thirsty for a car that size.  I think they're cool looking as anything and I feel like I should love the concept but the execution just didn't really work for me.  Also they're not exactly young at this point in the USA.

EDIT:  If that general age of car isn't an issue for you, maybe the Acura RSX or the Civic Si that shares a platform and looks like a wedge that we got here in the States?  I don't think these are really what you're looking for though.

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

EDIT:  If that general age of car isn't an issue for you, maybe the Acura RSX or the Civic Si that shares a platform and looks like a wedge that we got here in the States?  I don't think these are really what you're looking for though.

The RSX is a hatch, but not really as storage friendly as what I am looking for.  I've previously looked for a Civic Si 4dr and those are hard to find not absolutely beat to hell.  On most of the examples I came across the clear coat was dying (and this was ~2018 when I was looking).  That K20 is an absolute blast though.  I feel like I came across a few with 3rd(?) gear synchro issues also.

Similar to Speed3, these are just a bit long in the tooth.  If the planets aligned and I came across an 8th Gen Si Sedan with lower mileage, I would probably snap it up.  And just hate myself anytime I needed to carry something with boxy dimensions.

volvoclearinghouse said:

Another vote for a Mazda3. If used is ok, the 2014-2018 generation is fun and has more cargo space than the newer ones. My '18 has the 2.0, which is about 30 HP less spicy than the 2.5, but it's a willing mill and the 6 speed is a joy. 59,000 miles of ownership so far, just replaced the OEM rolling stones with some sticky rubber. MPG took a hit, but I'm perfectly happy averaging 35 instead of 37 for the extra grip. Planning on installing some Raybestos brake pads at the 60k oil change. 

+1 to all of this. My GF bought a 2017 sport with the 2.0 and the manual, and it's been solid for 100k miles. My only complaint is that the seats don't fit me especially well (the headrests, really). With better dampers and lowered an inch it would be great fun, and even stock it's a good handler.

The point above on the C30 being thirsty is correct. My V50 (same engine, but automatic and heavier) only manages 23-24mpg in normal use, and I doubt the C30 is much better.

Aside from being hatchbacks, they are wildly different cars in terms of character.

My old Golf R averaged about 26mpg.  Although I have a short commute without much freeway driving and it was tuned.  It got slightly better mpg stock, the GTi's get much better mpg's, their gearing is a lot taller.

02Pilot said:

volvoclearinghouse said:

Another vote for a Mazda3. If used is ok, the 2014-2018 generation is fun and has more cargo space than the newer ones. My '18 has the 2.0, which is about 30 HP less spicy than the 2.5, but it's a willing mill and the 6 speed is a joy. 59,000 miles of ownership so far, just replaced the OEM rolling stones with some sticky rubber. MPG took a hit, but I'm perfectly happy averaging 35 instead of 37 for the extra grip. Planning on installing some Raybestos brake pads at the 60k oil change. 

+1 to all of this. My GF bought a 2017 sport with the 2.0 and the manual, and it's been solid for 100k miles. My only complaint is that the seats don't fit me especially well (the headrests, really). With better dampers and lowered an inch it would be great fun, and even stock it's a good handler.

The point above on the C30 being thirsty is correct. My V50 (same engine, but automatic and heavier) only manages 23-24mpg in normal use, and I doubt the C30 is much better.

Aside from being hatchbacks, they are wildly different cars in terms of character.

Good point about the dampers, I ought to look into some replacements. Mine rides well, but I'm sure after 60k miles there's been enough gradual degredation that a new set would be as much a revelation as replacing those awful OEM tires with Sumitmo HTR A/S P03's was. 

As a hatch, and all-around hauler, it's great. I can fit my 2 kids in car seats in the back, with Mrs VCH and I up front, and have enough room for an overnights worth of luggage. It's also made trips to the lumberyard and hauled home multiple sticks of 8' lumber with the hatch closed. 

Off the line it won't win any drag races, except maybe to a 1994 Camry, but it goes exactly where you point it, and 3rd gear is useable from 20 to 90 mph. 

Don't forget Hyundai. Veloster may not have best hatch but Elantra GT Sport/N line looks to be pretty solid. 

Another vote for the 3rd gen Mazda 3. My father has a '15 with the 2.5. Sure, it's not lightening fast, but it's plenty quick (0-60 around 7 or even a bit less) and it will chirp the tires into second gear. Reliable as gravity. He has only replaced the tires in 50k miles, along with fluids. Handles great stock. With shocks and springs it would be wildly fun. Great MPGs too. Squarely in your price range. The only thing I don't like about it is the seats are a little hard for my body type (skinny, tall, long torso). My dad is shorter and doesn't complain. If I owned one, I'd have to put some sort of cushion down as my butt hurts after driving it for a while.

The Civic Sport is another great option if you can stand the looks. I can't. I also don't love modern DI turbo motors. I'd do a lot of research on the known issues with the 1.5t before buying one. 

I would check out the last gen Elantra GT sport or whatever it's called. The last gen looked great, and gives you about 200hp. Again, I'd do a lot of learning about that motor first, but I tend to be leary of turbo motors. 

GTwannaB said:

Don't forget Hyundai. Veloster may not have best hatch but Elantra GT Sport/N line looks to be pretty solid. 

I had a Veloster and really enjoyed that power train.  The drivers door was horrible. The hatch isn't the biggest and the loading height is terrible, but it was practical - more than an Elantra sedan.  Elantra GT hatch is a consideration but I've only ever seen one for sale.  I've had two Hyundai Kia products in a row though and I'm not too excited about another.

One issue I do recall though is, turbo fwd + open diff = very easy to light up one tire.   Veloster had a brake trac control diff thingy that wasn't great.  That makes me nervous about some of the other cars.  Focus ST doesn't have a real diff but has brake track control that apparently works ok?  GTI has a limited slip with the PP.  Speed 3 has a Torsen.  Volvo?  Mini?  

I doubt an open diff is a dealbreaker for a street car, just another factor to consider.

If you want reliability, I would stay away from turbo anything or direct injection. Old school SFI and NA is way simpler and easier to maintain. 6 speeds are nice but also usually more complicated than say Ford's IB5, a dead simple transaxle. Parts availability is another thing to consider. 

Honda Fit? A friend of mine just told me she bought a newer Mazda 3 hatch because apparently the stick shift option is going away? I haven't been able to find something concrete on that one.

IMO there might be a better daily driver that can do autocross/track work than a MK7 GTI out there, but I don't know what it is.

I wouldn't even consider anything pre-15 GTI or the Audi mentioned (which has the older EA888.2 motor, that have all kinds of stupid and expensive problems).

The main issues the EA888.3 has are water pump and thermostats (which are under an extended warranty coverage up to I think 80k mi, Google it). There will be other problems that pop up not on every car, but here and there. Direct injectors failing at higher mileage, etc. PCV valve failure is semi-common, I've been experimenting with a MK8 PCV retrofit (which can be done <$200 or ~$300 depending on if doing the "basic" or "full" retrofit - the MK8 has a wildly effective design that utilizes a Venturi to aid in maintaining vacuum on the crankcase at all times) which works well and has significant design changes even if the Venturi is not utilized.

https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/drivetrain/pcvtechtalk

A 2017 Sport is what you want. It has the HID headlights (which are amazing), no sunroof (which should be avoided at all costs), plus the Performance Pack standard.

The only reason these cars might have problems overheating on track is how they're modified. We found out that all of the companies selling oil coolers for this car tell you to put them in the WRONG spot. Directly in front of the "cold" side of the intercooler. This causes IATs to skyrocket, heats up the coolant (so people buy a $500 aftermarket CSF radiator which actually doesn't do anything helpful unless you induce your own problems via an oil cooler), and causes the car to pull a ton of timing which adds even more heat in the process.

You can read about some of our testing on a buddy's car here:

https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/drivetrain/oil-cooler-location-and-ducting

There is also a bunch of cooling data from a variety of sample cars here:

https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/drivetrain/coolingdata

Main takeaways:

• IS20 (GTI stock turbo) is WAY easier to keep cool than IS38 (Golf R stock turbo). 
• Any of the sub $1000 FMICs suck on track compared to any of the stock location ICs
• How hot everything gets is directly linked to how fast you're driving it on track. Unless you're actually legitimately fast you won't have a problem.
• Aftermarket intercooler + stock tune is the best bet if temps/reliability are your concerns.
• 270F oil temps are fine. 20+ days on my car on track in the last 20k and 2 years with no issues. The people who add oil coolers (see above) are the ones who end up with limp mode problems.
• DSG cars will run a tad bit cooler on track all else being equal. The data might skew this a bit, because it happens to be most of the 6MT cars are either balls out dedicated track cars, OR they're being driven in 100F heat in the Texas.

These things are also a ton of fun to autocross, and actually pretty competitive in both GS and STH if you go that way.

https://www.datadrivenmqb.com/tripreports/tsccax3

Sorry for all the links, but that's part of why I made the website: I end up talking about this crap so much it is easier to just reference there at this point.

The Golf Alltrack could be added if you want more space.  Many GTI and Golf R bits bolt on.  My wife's 2018 6 speed hasnt had any issues aside from the super common water pump (twice) and sunroof leak.  It's at 105kish miles now and has the IS38 Golf R turbo, and an aftermarket intercooler, downpipe and clutch.  It's certainly much more fun with those additions. 

They are a little pokey in stock form with the IS12.  I think would have been happy with an IS20 GTI turbo but I found a deal on all the parts together from someone who decided to go to an RS3 rather than upgrade his Alltrack.