I came across this speedhunters artilce: http://www.speedhunters.com/2015/03/clever-mercedes-benz-190e-cosworth/
My questions are:
How hard is it to get a "regular" 190E to look like this?
Are there certain years that are better than others?
Seems like most manuals are the 2.3 non 16V?
Any likely challenge priced swaps on these for a little more power?
I am up to my ears in never started and half finished projects, but i can't get over how the cosworths look, and there are some manual 190E's not too far for challenge type money.
Good luck finding an Evo 1 body kit, let alone a w201 with said kit already attached for anything close to challenge money.
You will spend more trying to build a 16v Cosworth replica than you will just buying a real one in driver condition these days.
The regular 2.3 manual 190Es are kind of dogs. They are a German commodity car. If you can find a 190E 2.6 with the manual, that is the best you are going to do short of a Cosworth, but I believe some parts are even more unobtainium for those than they are for the Cosworth. And even then they are more stately than sporty.
Nothing is impossible but the kind of project you are asking about is not compatible with a challenge budget. The way to make a 190E fast and fun on a challenge budget would be to put a V8 in one...
If you're dead set on a manual transmission and don't want to pay huge money for a 16V, you have to either start with a base 2.3 (uncommon, but not that rare), or a 2.6 (rare). You could always swap the 2.6 for a manual, but then you have to find the transmission and all the associated parts. I did that with a 2.3 and believe me, parts are not easy to come by. I had to get a transmission from Europe. Plus, with the 2.6 you need the right flywheel with the timing marks for the ignition ECU. This part is very hard to find, and when you find it the guys want huge money for it.
To build a reasonably quick car for low money, I think the best way is to start with a 2.6 and swap it for a M104 3.2 and stick with the 722.4 auto trans. You can mod them to start in 1st too. You need to use some kind of standalone ECU. The reason you start with a 2.6 is because the sheetmetal at the front of the engine bay is different for the 2.3 to accommodate the longer engine. You could swap that to the 2.3, but you need to find a donor and cut/weld the new parts.
The 190E drives good once sorted out. Usually this means all new control arms and/or bushings (5-link rear), Bilstein shocks, trans adjusted properly and CIS injection in good working order. Also if you go look at one, they rust under the side skirts sometimes. Open the square access holes to look for rust. Get the latest model you can find as the engines had better features such as a double row timing chain.
it doesn't have to look exactly like the cosworth. Just didn't know if you could get a good half way point with some eBay flares and a bumper.
Good info on the engine options thanks. I did see there have been some 1JZ swaps. But I haven't seen much documentation on those.
You can probably find a Craigslist 190e 2.6 for a decent price, but it will more then likely be an automatic. Car-Part.com and you will find all the parts to do a manual swap, and 3.0 m103 swap, Ebay fender flares etc. Just probably not for Challenge money. A w201 is easily my favorite classic sport sedan, I just can't justify having a 3rd project car right now.
In reply to Somebeach :
eBay flares, a nice front bumper, and an LS swap. Zing!
Long-time W201 16v fanatic here. The only good Evo I kit is sold by Stadler in Germany and will set you back at least a couple of grand. There's a guy in Thailand who makes a cheap reproduction. By all accounts, quality is poor and it'll still cost you $1500. Ebay kits tend to ape the Evo II ... and pretty much all look like trash.
Bottom line is don't do it. You can still find a genuine 16v in decent condition for under $10k. There was a guy on the 190Rev forum selling one for $5-6 just last week I think. There's something special about a genuine 16v that you're not going to get with a regular W201. Just go for it!
By the way, Evo I kits assume that you have a 16v as the starting point.
In other words, whichever Evo I kit you buy, you'll still need the stock 16v front/rear bumpers, door cladding, and side skirts. If you're starting with a regular W201 then you'll need to buy that stuff, too. Add the prices of the stock 16v bodykit on top of the Evo I add-ons (plus shipping and import duties) then the cost of fitting/prepping/painting. You're topping $3k in no time.
A clean non-16v W201 will be at least $2-3k and it's almost 100% certain to be an auto. So you'll need all the parts/labor for a 5-speed swap. Before you know it, you've hit $6-7k ... and you can find a decent 16v for that price if you're patient and dig around a little.
Without doubt, the Evo I is a fantastic looking car. But even a stock 16v looks pretty badass if you just lower it a little bit. Here's mine:
In reply to LanEvo :
Hey, did you ever sell your racecar? It looked like a killer deal for the right buyer.
I'd seen a w201 non-16v go for auction on Mechums for $6500 a few years ago, I went so far as to find out who bought it and contacted them, I'd left it as if they were ever interested in selling it to give me a call.
M104 3.6 AMG swapped, megasquirt, dog leg 5-speed.
CrustyRedXpress said:
In reply to LanEvo :
Hey, did you ever sell your racecar? It looked like a killer deal for the right buyer.
I got no bites. That's the same car in my pic above. Just de-stickerified and road registered.
In reply to LanEvo :
Man that is still a great looking car, i did't realize there were astetic diffrences between the 2.3 8V and the 16V. I will keep my eyes open gives me something else to search for. How much lower is yours than stock, did you use coilovers?
I found this for sale ad, and it was more of what i was thinking you could do body wise for challenge type money.
https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1984/mercedes_benz/190e/100990206
I think* is is just a "regular" 190E with some flares right?
Description from ad incase it sells
1984 Mercedes Benz 190E (Matthews, NC) - $13,500
Exterior: Silver Blue
Interior: Blue Vinyl
Transmission: 5 Speed Manual
Engine: V-8
4 Door racing vehicle. RWD. 9 out of 10 condition. Well maintained and garage kept.
2.2 diesel titled track car is for sale. When first assembled for the street, I had a Ford GT40 short block in it. Now it is a 354 4 bolt main motor that is 450hp and 410 torque. The current block came from a 704hp TransAm car and the block is good for 1200hp according to Ford Motorsport. The block has thicker walls, more nickel in it and weighs 60lb more than its 302 counterpart. It also has needle bearings on the cam, bronze sleeves in the lifter bores and the valley is polished. The bore is .070 over and the forged crank is .400 over making it 354
Ive had this car for 10 years and have won TTR in NASA-SE in 2008-2012. . It is very reliable with a TKO3550 transmission and a Torsen limited slip in a 1993 Thunderbird differential with no CV joint in the axles, all Spicer joints! Each axle is the same as a driveshaft in a one ton truck!
The suspension is dble adj Koni struts front and Carrera shocks rear. It has a Speedway Eng. adj. front swaybar and an adjustable rear bar. All arm links are aluminum with heim joints. The radiator is Fluidyne and always runs cool with a Stewart racing water pump. Oil pan is 7.5qts and has an Accusump attached for positive oil flow.
Did you glance at the thread title and think of this?
A friend of mine built an M104/dogleg car. Had it running on megasquirt. Fast, fun and damn cool. There's also an adapter from this engine to a BMW ZF320 which seems like maybe a better option if the budget allows.
The body kit might be a bit harder.
In reply to Somebeach :
That looks like an early 190D chassis with eBay flares and hood.
LanEvo said:
In reply to Somebeach :
That looks like an early 190D chassis with eBay flares and hood.
Is the 190D different body wise. For some reason I thought it was the same just diesel?
In reply to buzzboy :
I am not familiar with the Mercedes engines. But looking at the M104 Wikipedia page , sure seems like it would be a fun swap.
Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I THINK the 190 Diesels had little cooling vents cut into the sides of the fenders, right behind the headlights.
Stealthtercel said:
Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I THINK the 190 Diesels had little cooling vents cut into the sides of the fenders, right behind the headlights.
Only the passenger side if I remember correctly. Both the w201 and the w124 diesels were like that (about the only way to tell the difference from the outside).
In reply to Appleseed :
No, but now that you have mentioned it I can.
Stealthtercel said:
Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I THINK the 190 Diesels had little cooling vents cut into the sides of the fenders, right behind the headlights.
I think that was just the later 2.5L Turbo models. Most W201 diesels had a regular, unvented front fender.
In reply to buzzboy :
It looks like we're a few different M104's was there one that is better or are the all pretty similar?
In reply to Somebeach :
The M104 came in various displacements from 3.0L to 3.6L (I think). Early ones ran on KJet electromechanical fuel injection; later ones ran more modern EFI. The cutoff was '92 or '93 for the W124 chassis.
If you asked me ten years ago, I would have known all this stuff for certain. Now the details are all just swimming around in my aging brain.
