If you Still want Carbs / electrical simplicity, you could go Ford Lima 2.3 carburated from an early 80's mustang. Heavy lump, but VERY reliable, and there are still performance parts that would make it 'peppy'. Bonus T-5 with overdrive came stock on those engines too.
If you later on want more power, swap in a Turbo F.I. version from Turbo Coupe or SVO.
Robbie wrote:tr8todd wrote: Rebuild your MGB engine and drive your car.There is wisdom here. I keep coming back to this. About once every three days.
Nah...stop kidding yourself. Life will be easier if you stick a pin in that fantasy and move on.
Here is a picture of my dust collector. Had it since 1978 and the drivetrain has been through more lives than a cat. At this point it has gone back to pretty much stock except for a 4 link coil over rear suspension.
Even though it is insured and drivable, it has not been out of the garage for the last few years just because I have given up on the drivetrain. While it has never made me walk home, one could debate that walking would be preferable to the nagging needy cacophony that is the B series engine coupled to the gravel grinder that the Brits call a gearbox. The OD is like a radicalized Muslim in that you know it will lash-out at you and that it will hurt, but there is nothing you can do to prevent it or anticipate it.
Me and my wallet have tried over the years, but there is no modification or permutation of factory engine and gearbox that feels less than disappointing. The body-style I am still enamored with; it IS beautiful, and hence I use it to keep dust off of a patch of my garage floor. Does a good job of that.
So go for the Miata 1800 with a 5 speed. It is already a classic engine and parts will be around for a few generations; something that will ensure the car carries on. If you put a less classic engine in there, it will probably be done after your tenure.
I can't believe no one has recommended a Jag V12. Honestly you people are slacking. 
http://www.britishv8.org/mg/mgb-v12.htm
Keith Tanner wrote: I would totally do a 1.8 or 1.6 Miata swap. It looks right, it's got enough power to make the GT interesting, it's already mated to a fantastic transmission, it's pretty cheap and it's been done a couple of times. Really, why make it more difficult? But I'd keep the fuel injection. Carbs might be more mechanical than FI, but they suck - no pun intended. You're not driving the car now because it's not fun to drive and it's a pain in the ass. Make it easy to drive and you'll drive it. Going to carbs will be more expensive, use more fuel, mess up the drivability, involve extra tuning and will only fill you with warmth and happiness when you are admiring the view underhood after you've just twiddled with them. I am saying this as a guy who just put a wideband O2 sensor on his SU-equipped Mini and is now a bit scared to drive it after seeing the horror of carbureted air/fuel ratios. I'd also keep the electronic ignition because it'll keep working without you touching it for 100,000 miles and the packaging is better without the dizzy sticking out of the back of the head into your heater box. Then you just drive the car. All Miata transmissions have an overdrive top gear with the exception of the 2016 'box. They just don't have a goofy electrical switch to get thereI almost put a Miata engine/trans in my "spare" engineless GT after I was done with the LS swap. I didn't need another car, though, so I sold it and now it's running around Albuquerque with an MGB 1800 in it.
+1000 this. The Miata engine/tranny ONLY make sense if you leave it F.I. The carb. conversion is a HUGE step backwards, and more work than it's worth.
The real answer here truly is the Miata. Like it always is.
Modern distributorless ignition is great. You change out all these fragile mechanical whirlygigs for a sensor and some chips. The distributor is usually the most unreliable part on an engine, and that's with newer non-points distributors.
EFI's not bad either, the only real disadvantage of EFI vs. carbs is that EFI is less roadside-fixable. You need to carry spare sensors and a code reader, while carbs can generally be fixed with a screwdriver.
Cough Bike engine cough
GameboyRMH wrote:oldeskewltoy wrote: just to put it out there.... 4AGE with T50??? Or if you want to keep the "1800" build a 7AGE. Power for a mild built 4AGE around 140-150hp, for a 7AGE closer to 160, or 170I thought about this, but then I thought about parts rarity (especially on a 16v). You can replace almost everything with aftermarket parts, but that's very expensive, and the few parts you can't replace could leave your engine dead while you scrounge around like a WW2 fighter plane owner.Hits the DOHC, and carb button (if you so choose), or can go with ITBs if you'd prefer. As far as a point based ignition, Id say you'll need something else so you can get the advance you want.
What???? There are piles of parts for these available. Yes it is an older motor dating back to the 80's but it carried through into the 90's and various iterations in various cars. I have worked on these motors since the early 90's. I have rebuilt many of these. As far as I know you can still get factory parts from the dealers as of a year or so ago. I have not had to purchase anything in the last 2 years or so so that may have changed. But waht are you going to need? How is going back with a rebuilt MG motor going to be any better? At least with a 4age you have a very good shot that the local parts store will have what you need. I would bet that this would not be the case with a MG motor. The 4age is the small block Chevy of the 4 cylinder Japanese motors.
Also where are you seeing that 4age parts are expensive? As compared to what? I always found them to be "average" . Basically the same as all other Japanese parts. I dont know how they stack up against MG parts.
In reply to dean1484:
MG parts can be the cheapest and most expensive at the same time. If you buy the cheapest MG parts, you will:
A: be initially blown away that a brand new water pump is only $15.
B: you will inevitably do the job 4 times with 5 or 6 different cheap water pumps before you give up and call Moss for a good one.
java230 wrote: Cough Bike engine cough
I'm pretty firmly in the Miata engine bandwagon now.
Ask me tomorrow, though.
java230 wrote: Cough Bike engine cough
He wants an MG he can drive.. not something that will either scare him into selling the car, or frustrate him with it's on/off power characteristics into selling the car. the Miata engine is the best choice.
The Engine out of the Miata (I would go with the 1.8 to keep with the 1800 MG) has way more power than the stock MG engine, A lot more torque, it's smooth, it's reliable, and it's cleaner and gets better Mileage. The fact that it comes with a nice 5 speed and may actually be lighter than the lump that car came with, are all the pluses he needs
Another vote for Miata power.
mad_machine wrote:java230 wrote: Cough Bike engine coughHe wants an MG he can drive.. not something that will either scare him into selling the car, or frustrate him with it's on/off power characteristics into selling the car. the Miata engine is the best choice. The Engine out of the Miata (I would go with the 1.8 to keep with the 1800 MG) has way more power than the stock MG engine, A lot more torque, it's smooth, it's reliable, and it's cleaner and gets better Mileage. The fact that it comes with a nice 5 speed and may actually be lighter than the lump that car came with, are all the pluses he needs
Oh I completely agree the miata engine is a good choice, but BEC's are SO fun. For a cruiser car, probably a little too high strung
java230 wrote: Cough Bike engine cough
MGB is too heavy for that Game. Try an MG Midget.
http://www.mgexp.com/phorum/read.php?3,1645751,page=61
dean1484 wrote: What???? There are piles of parts for these available. Yes it is an older motor dating back to the 80's but it carried through into the 90's and various iterations in various cars. I have worked on these motors since the early 90's. I have rebuilt many of these. As far as I know you can still get factory parts from the dealers as of a year or so ago. I have not had to purchase anything in the last 2 years or so so that may have changed. But waht are you going to need? How is going back with a rebuilt MG motor going to be any better? At least with a 4age you have a very good shot that the local parts store will have what you need. I would bet that this would not be the case with a MG motor. The 4age is the small block Chevy of the 4 cylinder Japanese motors. Also where are you seeing that 4age parts are expensive? As compared to what? I always found them to be "average" . Basically the same as all other Japanese parts. I dont know how they stack up against MG parts.
You can indeed get just about any 4AGE internal part from the dealership (and many from a parts shop), and I'm certainly not suggesting going back to the MG motor instead (or at all, like I said, it's a relic), but a lot of bits and pieces - especially engine accessories and their components - are rapidly drying up and some can only be bought used (AC compressor, PS pump, alternators are very nearly at that point, starters aren't far behind).
OEM and 3rd-party stock-spec parts aren't especially expensive, but aftermarket performance parts are definitely on the expensive side, probably because it's a niche market these days. Even the performance aftermarket for 4AGEs seems to be on the downturn, Crower recently stopped making cams for the 4AGE 16v (except custom requests).
So... if I'm going miata - what is the one to get?
Just the cheapest 1.8 I can find? I've heard the 1.6 is exterior dimension-wise a little smaller, and may make fitting easier. Is it worth it?
What about something from an NC? I'm sure its now getting into much more expensive range, and DI, VVT, etc. Too complicated to bother with? Or are they a worthwhile upgrade over the 1.8? I guess all that stuff does go against the "simple" part, but I see on cl right now in my little town there is a guy with two rolled NCs looking to part them out.
The 1.6L will probably be the cheapest Miata engine to find (everyone swaps from a 1.6L to a 1.8L. Never seen anyone go the other way.) The 1.6L's 115hp seems like it would be enough for an MG and the 1.6L is very rev happy, above 4K it sings. The 1.8L is going to be more common, I would go with the '94-'97 engine. You don't pay the premium for the '99-'00 solid-lifter head or have the complications of the '01-'05 VVT head.
GameboyRMH wrote: Modern distributorless ignition is great. You change out all these fragile mechanical whirlygigs for a sensor and some chips. The distributor is usually the most unreliable part on an engine, and that's with newer non-points distributors. EFI's not bad either, the only real disadvantage of EFI vs. carbs is that EFI is less roadside-fixable. You need to carry spare sensors and a code reader, while carbs can generally be fixed with a screwdriver.
When is the last time you had a EFI failure with no warning put you on a roadside? It's incredibly rare unless you ignore that CEL thrown by a bad cam/crank sensor or something to that effect.
I believe Carl Heideman (sp?) did a few articles in the sister mag on a Miata engine in a MGB. Don't remember the intake system he used but a stand-alone ECU would work.
BrokenYugo wrote: When is the last time you had a EFI failure with no warning put you on a roadside? It's incredibly rare unless you ignore that CEL thrown by a bad cam/crank sensor or something to that effect.
Never, but I've only put a few hours on my first EFI'd car. I've never been stranded by a carb problem either though.
GameboyRMH wrote:dean1484 wrote: What???? There are piles of parts for these available. Yes it is an older motor dating back to the 80's but it carried through into the 90's and various iterations in various cars. I have worked on these motors since the early 90's. I have rebuilt many of these. As far as I know you can still get factory parts from the dealers as of a year or so ago. I have not had to purchase anything in the last 2 years or so so that may have changed. But waht are you going to need? How is going back with a rebuilt MG motor going to be any better? At least with a 4age you have a very good shot that the local parts store will have what you need. I would bet that this would not be the case with a MG motor. The 4age is the small block Chevy of the 4 cylinder Japanese motors. Also where are you seeing that 4age parts are expensive? As compared to what? I always found them to be "average" . Basically the same as all other Japanese parts. I dont know how they stack up against MG parts.You can indeed get just about any 4AGE internal part from the dealership (and many from a parts shop), and I'm certainly not suggesting going back to the MG motor instead (or at all, like I said, it's a relic), but a lot of bits and pieces - especially engine accessories and their components - are rapidly drying up and some can only be bought used (AC compressor, PS pump, alternators are very nearly at that point, starters aren't far behind). OEM and 3rd-party stock-spec parts aren't especially expensive, but aftermarket performance parts are definitely on the expensive side, probably because it's a niche market these days. Even the performance aftermarket for 4AGEs seems to be on the downturn, Crower recently stopped making cams for the 4AGE 16v (except custom requests).
The rwd T50 gearbox isn't super easy to find at a good price either.
I had to throw out the 1.6 engine and gearbox after nearly a year of trying to sell them for any amount of $$$. Had I been selling a 1.8, it would have been gone in an afternoon for $1000.
If it were me doing this, I would hold out for the 1800.
If you read the Carl Heideman article, note that at the end he does not come out as the biggest advocate for this swap.
I'd talk to Carl about the 1.6 vs 1.8 engine question. The 1.8 IS slightly bigger, both in length and height. It's not enough that most people would notice, but it can make the difference on a tight install. An MGB is smaller than a Miata, especially on width. I seem to recall Carl had some challenges due to size.
The 1.6 is actually a revvier engine than the 1.8, but it's down on torque. Both will be considerably stronger (and lighter) than the MG engine - I think a stock 1.6 Miata engine is roughly equivalent to the MG 1800 with a Moss supercharger on it. The 1.6 will be cheaper for sure, and it's a fun engine.
I'd stay away from the NC parts. It's a fairly characterless engine, and I'm also concerned with separating the engine management from the rest of the car. I've not tried myself, I'm just concerned. It's a CAN bus car. I'd also stay away from the 2001-05 engines with VVT, they're taller and have an immobilizer. The easy button is 1990-95, the pre-OBD cars. Using a 1996 or later will add some diagnostic capability - which is nice - but will also bring nagging about missing emissions components.
Unless you're looking for an extra project, I would not do a standalone ECU. That means you're on the hook for cold start, idle speed voltage compensation, all the difficult stuff. As much love as there is for the MS, the truth is that it's not as good under those conditions as the stock unit and it's more work for you.
There's no significant difference between the 1.6 and 1.8 5-speed transmissions. Small ones, the most of important of which is the potential for a 1.6 to get stuck in reverse which is easily fixed on the roadside. I've never had it happen myself (knock on wood). But the gear ratios and external dimensions are identical.
You saw that we're fully detailing a Miata/MGB swap in GRM, right? Just crib from our notes.
NOHOME wrote: I had to throw out the 1.6 engine and gearbox after nearly a year of trying to sell them for any amount of $$$.
Dang. Maybe 1.6 is the way to go.
NOHOME wrote: If you read the Carl Heideman article, note that at the end he does not come out as the biggest advocate for this swap.
I do remember that. But isn't that in part because (no offense to Carl) he works with mainly MG owners who feel that "since the two engines basically make the same power between 1000 and 3500 RPM, and no MGB owner in their right mind would ever run the tach higher than 3500 RPM, that therefore the swap is a lot of work for little return?"
I guess that's part of the MG exp board (all the parts but the engine swap subforum) that turn me off a little bit. Lots of people are kinda on the bandwagon of "unless it is a full out racecar, you should focus on torque because that is what you need on the street", blah blah blah. Doesn't anyone want to really wind it out now and then? No, probably not, because every trip over 5500 RPM means one headlight stops working and you need to re-adjust the valves.
Isn't Norman Garrett quoted by saying something like "the rev limiter in the miata is set at 7200 RPM, and it is meant to be used"? Now THAT is a sports car engine.
Don't mean to crap all over MG owners and MGBs themselves, nor am I trying to disagree with you. More just checking to make sure I remember right, and to explain further to myself why I do not want the stocker.
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