What AWD Mid-Engined capable transmissions are there that are affordable? I have a list of non at the moment.
What AWD Mid-Engined capable transmissions are there that are affordable? I have a list of non at the moment.
Seriously? What mid-engine AWD transmissions exist period? I can think of a couple of Lamborghinis that I think are mid-engine and AWD, then there's the AWD rear engined Porsches, but I think that's it. Maybe the Audi R8 is AWD too? Basically, you're out of luck.
You might be able to piece something together though. A lot of Honda 4 cylinder engines turn the opposite direction of most engines. Can you take a front engine, AWD Honda transmission, mate it to a non-Honda engine and turn it around and put it in the middle of the car? Normally the non-Honda engine would give the car 5 reverse gears and 1 forward gear, but turning it around fixes that. I don't know how well the helical gears respond to being turned backwards. I think there was a thread about that about 6 months ago.
Bob
Hmm... maybe a std FWD/AWD set-up placed mid-engine and then with a transfer case mounted on the (normally) RWD out-put to direct power to a front drive system. I'm not sure how elegant or efficient it would be, but it should be possible.
I would call the Mitsu Lancer EVO setup a n=mid-engine capable AWD unit. It's a FWD transaxle with a separate output. Just change that out put around to go forward instead of backwards.
The Subaru setup might also work. It's setup as a RWD transaxle with a forward output, that would stick the engine actually literally in the middle if you stuck the rear diff right off of the end of the trans.
The Dodge/Chrysler 3.5L cars (Intrepid and 300M) had a funky north-south motor with a transaxle that came back around. I know it's been adapted to be a RWD/rear engine setup, but I don't know if powering other wheels with it can be done, plus it is an auto.
I've always thought an Audi transaxle would make a nice mid engine setup and as they have the rearward output may also be able to be pieced into something that may do what you want.
Sadly a lot will depend on what exactly you want to pull off. If its for a track toy thats one set of problems but if you want something more plush...
Really just wondering at the moment, I got as far as Lamborghini, R8, Porsche as well and thought that there have to be more options somewhere.
I'm possibly picking up a mini cooper shell soon.
For a vintage mini I'd definitely do a FWD setup in the rear for not only cost but packaging. You can get a ton of nice, powerful 4 bangers with a transaxle and LSD, subframe & rear facing exhaust from the junkyard for way under a grand with axles and everything including wheels. Make a frame. roll them under... weld inner tie rod to frame... (cheesey... but until I made my own control arms... I'd tool around the parking lot like that ;) )
I am looking for the right car to try this myself - google 'midlana' for a bit of inspiration. Check out his "mini" while you are there.
There's a guy in my my local MINI club with a Honda engine in the back of his Mini. He even turbocharged it. In a way, similar to a Renault R5. It's so fast it's scares him.
Javelin wrote: I would call the Mitsu Lancer EVO setup a n=mid-engine capable AWD unit. It's a FWD transaxle with a separate output. Just change that out put around to go forward instead of backwards. The Subaru setup might also work. It's setup as a RWD transaxle with a forward output, that would stick the engine actually literally in the middle if you stuck the rear diff right off of the end of the trans. The Dodge/Chrysler 3.5L cars (Intrepid and 300M) had a funky north-south motor with a transaxle that came back around. I know it's been adapted to be a RWD/rear engine setup, but I don't know if powering other wheels with it can be done, plus it is an auto.
Subaru isn't going to work...
As you can see, there's no real "forward" output, the front diff is built into the transmission. Potentially awesome for a mid-engined RWD setup, useless for an AWD one.
run it like the old Ford RS200 rally cars did. RWD transmission, driveshaft to a reversing box up front, driveshaft from that back to a transfer case. only potential problem is your shift pattern will be REALLY screwed up (odd gears across the bottom, reverse where 1st usually is, have to elbow the bellhousing when you want to get into 1st, 3rd, or 5th, etc...) and that's gonna be a lot of driveshaft hoops and UJs to worry about. and it will be heavy. but it would work
Take your typical FWD engine and trans and turn it sideways and mount in the car. Use the axles as driveshafts to front and rear difs. (weld the transaxles spider gears to give a locker).
Slyp_Dawg wrote: run it like the old Ford RS200 rally cars did. RWD transmission, driveshaft to a reversing box up front, driveshaft from that back to a transfer case.
That's not how they worked.
The RS200 had the engine and bellhousing in back. That drove a transaxle up front. Another driveshaft went back to the rear to another diff. Yes, the car has two driveshafts, one at engine speed and the other at normal driveshaft speed.
modernbeat wrote:Slyp_Dawg wrote: run it like the old Ford RS200 rally cars did. RWD transmission, driveshaft to a reversing box up front, driveshaft from that back to a transfer case.That's not how they worked. The RS200 had the engine and bellhousing in back. That drove a transaxle up front. Another driveshaft went back to the rear to another diff. Yes, the car has two driveshafts, one at engine speed and the other at normal driveshaft speed.
ah, ok. I've only ever seen one mention of how the power was transferred in those cars, and it was a while ago so I'm guessing it was either wrong info or I read it wrong
The Dodge/Chrysler 3.5L cars (Intrepid and 300M) had a funky north-south motor with a transaxle that came back around. I know it's been adapted to be a RWD/rear engine setup, but I don't know if powering other wheels with it can be done, plus it is an auto.
Oddly enough they designed those cars to be rwd 'capable' platforms and it does show when you look at them. As for converting a 42lh to run something off the back as well as what it already does.. i would think it would be fairly easy with a few custom parts and some machining if you just stuck a yoke out the rear cover attached to the pinion shaft. But it would still not help you get mid-engine awd.. its front output is the same as the subaru tranny pictured above.
Osterkraut wrote: Subaru isn't going to work...
How about hanging a pair of helical gears off the back of the Subaru trans and using that to run a driveshaft forward?
What about the first generation Toyota Previa? It's "mid-engine", available as AWD or RWD, with either a manual or automatic transmission. I assume this isn't the mid-engine layout you're looking for though. I'm pretty sure the Previa is really a standard front engine layout with the engine and transmission pushed back behind the front wheels, making it a mid-engine layout, but not the traditional sports car mid-engine layout. It might be worth a look though. It was available with a supercharged 4-cylinder too.
Bob
Any 4WD truck 
They've got separate driveshafts for the front and rear, just juggle the lengths and you can move the engine/transmission further back. Okay, not really what you're looking for, I know...
How about hooking up a reverse-rotation Honda engine to one of the Subaru trans and mounting the whole thing backwards?
rl48mini wrote: Take your typical FWD engine and trans and turn it sideways and mount in the car. Use the axles as driveshafts to front and rear difs. (weld the transaxles spider gears to give a locker).
Gear ratios for the differentials would have to be nearly 1:1 to make this work for anything with speeds higher than 30mph.
BTW, they did this for a Junkyard Wars episode for a hillclimb vehicle. Worked well (expect for the low gearing and their design's lack of suspension)
Keith wrote: Any 4WD truck
The gears may not enjoy being run backwards, but that's not a bad thought.
I think the truck transmission is the best thing so far.
How about flipping an AWD transmission upside down?
mr2peak wrote: How about flipping an AWD transmission upside down?
I've yet to see a transmission that wouldn't a) leak like crazyif installed upside down or b) self-destruct due to improper oiling.
Right now, I'm thinking Subie + 4x4-style transfer case on the RWD output to send power to the front wheels. One could probably rig up a few FWD CV axels to get around/under the engine without making the COG too bad.
Hmmmm, Toyota All-Trac Corolla....E55 transaxle,
not sure it'll work though.... it was designed to go up front, and drive the rear wheels via driveshaft
The problem with the truck thing is if you measure from the front of the engine to the back of the transfer case, assume a VERY short or no driveshaft, and then the rear difff... you're talking like 6 or 7 feet of drivetrain there. The driver's seat would have to be WAAAY far forward or be in a VERY long car for that to work.
Vigo wrote: The problem with the truck thing is if you measure from the front of the engine to the back of the transfer case, assume a VERY short or no driveshaft, and then the rear difff... you're talking like 6 or 7 feet of drivetrain there. The driver's seat would have to be WAAAY far forward or be in a VERY long car for that to work.
No rear diff - just use the FWD out-puts for the rear wheels with an adapter to attach the transfer case directly to the AWD rear out-put. Not 6 feet long (not even close), but, yes, it would likely still be kinda long...
A couple trucks do have an AWD transfer case that may be beneficial. The 4Runner Limiteds in the late 1990 and early 2000s had such a case. I'm pretty sure its got a Torsen in it too.
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