Might actually buy a new car for myself

GameboyRMH wrote:

alfadriver wrote: Now, this is a sub B class car, for sure- more of a subset of the Smart car market. I can't see selling 7000 per year. Let alone enough to pay the cost of running a plant, pay for the cost of the materials and parts, pay for the development, etc.

These are far cheaper than the Smart, and if you sell a car for motorcycle prices that gets motorcycle MPG, maybe 7k will be sold per year.

maybe. Then they will have to pay for all of the parts that go into making it. And the electricty that runs the plant. And saleries of higher value employees.

It's not a motorcycle, so it's not going to appeal to many of them, it's only a commuter car, so it's not going to appeal to people who want to do more than that with their car....

I know there will be people who want them. I just can't see their numbers adding up to a profitable company that supports a plant, employees, and suppliers.

I'm not sure the market is quite that limited though. When gas hits $5.00 a gallon, if these are on sale AND known about, I can see people flocking to buy them (flocking is a relative term here) and getting hosed on the trade-in of the Tahoe they are driving due to the prospect of going from 13 mpg to 85.
And if they follow this up with a little quicker version.....

That being said, I bet it's fun to drive as it is now. I wonder about snowy commutes (mine would be a DD, all seasons) with the tail-dragger running gear not in any ruts in the snow.

DrBoost wrote: I'm not sure the market is quite that limited though. When gas hits $5.00 a gallon, if these are on sale AND known about, I can see people flocking to buy them (flocking is a relative term here) and getting hosed on the trade-in of the Tahoe they are driving due to the prospect of going from 13 mpg to 85. And if they follow this up with a little quicker version..... That being said, I bet it's fun to drive as it is now. I wonder about snowy commutes (mine would be a DD, all seasons) with the tail-dragger running gear not in any ruts in the snow.

Gas is almost $10/gal in Europe. Is the Smart that popular?

I don't see people flocking to it regardless of gas prices.

I see more 4cyl C/D and smaller engine C and B cars vs. any micro B cars.

Successfully styling a three-wheeler is a very, very difficult task that many designers overlook. They'll list all the engineering reasons behind it, and how that it gets great mileage, but forget the importance of impressions. No matter what companies insist, three-wheeled cars are a tough sell.

alfadriver wrote: Gas is almost $10/gal in Europe. Is the Smart that popular? I don't see people flocking to it regardless of gas prices. I see more 4cyl C/D and smaller engine C and B cars vs. any micro B cars.

Moreso than it is here but they also have a great deal more options in the segment in Europe so its hard to make a comparison.

Where the Smart has sold in the US is for people who need a 2nd car in the household for the primary commuter to get decent mileage. If the smart could hit a 7k price point like the Elio I think it would sell a lot better. Right now many households turn to the used market for the small commuter car in the house.

The pricing will be key, if they cant hit the sub 8k mark then it will be a very overpriced toy. Under 8k I'd own one and keep my Abarth too.

In reply to kb58:

Granted not quite as practical, but they did great on style in my opinion:

• Lee

bigdaddylee82 wrote: In reply to kb58: Granted not quite as practical, but they did great on style in my opinion: - Lee

The Morgan is awesome....the Elio? To each their own but I'll stick with my bikes.

bgkast wrote: I like the concept, but am very skeptical that 1) they will be able to meet that price point and 2) they will be able to create a successful automotive start up

This. I can think of a few big name companies, with much larger economies of scale, that sell much less complicated motorcycles for about the same price.

The targeted price is suspicious, to say the least. I'd love for them to make a liar out of me though.

GameboyRMH wrote: You can lock more stuff up inside it and stay dry in the rain? I think as long as this stays in the 4-digit range nobody will bat an eye at the price.

Okay, at which point why not buy a Goldwing and a $1k Civic, festiva, metro, daihatsu...or all of the above! Sorry. The 3-wheeled jalopy was doomed since inception, just like the smart car. Speaking of, if I'm going to look like a dork, I'd rather lease a smart car for $100 a month than buy one of these things.

Im basically with Alfadriver here.. I think making the car itself is not much of a stretch, but making a successful business model around it will be much harder. I think some of their estimates are very ambitious, and the lack of detail is off-putting.

it's only a commuter car, so it's not going to appeal to people who want to do more than that with their car....

I dont really get that characterization of the car, though. I see cars that get really good mpg as just cars that get really good mpg, which means the farther you drive the better they are. I dont think a car being small automatically lumps it into a commute-only box. Ive used my insight to drive 1400 miles straight and packed a weeklong trip for two into it. If anything, i kind of think of my bad-mpg (only 20-30mpg) cars as the commuters, and even then i think it doesnt really make sense for me since in this big city commutes are often 20mi one way. I look at my 50mpg car as my practical car and my 20-something mpg cars as my indulgences.

I think for one-person trips, a high-mpg car sort of becomes an everything-but-racing car.

poopshovel wrote:

GameboyRMH wrote: You can lock more stuff up inside it and stay dry in the rain? I think as long as this stays in the 4-digit range nobody will bat an eye at the price.

Okay, at which point why not buy a Goldwing

When you could never see yourself on a Goldwing....evar. Or when you plan on driving it 52 weeks a year, and lots of those weeks include X"s of snow, rain, and crazy drivers on I-75.
To me, it makes lots of sense. I agree, it seems ambition. Very much so. Kinda like most concept cars. True, concept cars are put out by companies that are already building cars, but still. Go back to the late 80's, whoda thunk we'd see boring old Dodge put out a V-10 roadster that competed with the 'vette? Stranger things have happened. In the end though, I give them less than a 50% change of ever making this thing. But if they do, I more than likely would buy one.

I like it. I think the biggest turnoff for most people is going to be tandem seating :(

poopshovel wrote: Okay, at which point why not buy a Goldwing and a $1k Civic, festiva, metro, daihatsu...or all of the above!

The Elio would appeal to people like me. I don't want a true motorcycle. I admire them, but have no intention of ever getting on one, let alone driving one. Don't know how many people there are like me, but I'd guess that Elio is banking on there being a lot. If it makes it to market at the price point they say, there's a very good chance I'd get one. Not going to plunk any money down to "reserve" one now, I have the same skeptic view most of you guys do. But as time goes on, if it's looking like a certainty the project is a go, I may reconsider.

In reply to Vigo:

The reason I call it a commuter only car- most families have 2 kids.

It would be a great city car, no question about that. Probably a good medium commuter car. But I'm not sure about longer distances. maybe, but maybe not- it's interesting to hear commuters who buy bigger for comfort over fuel economy.

While one can call a miata the same thing- it's what I use it for- I don't see this really falling into the cool fun to drive top down sports car. Besides, only 10k Miatas are sold annually- so even IF you call it a sports car, the sales back my cautious business thinking.

From what I can see- a commuter only = specialty tech cars = sports cars- which is about 10-20k units a year. Not enough to really support an entire plant by itself.

If I where to do a real business, I would start with a semi-luxury V8 and move down over about 20 years. Not the other way around. It will be easier to make money selling a $100k car at 5000/year to get started....

Look what I found in the West Ohio Auto RV magazine

There are at least three GRM board members who bought one today! Right!? Right!? "Dryer than a Vespa! Cooler than a Pelosi GTXi SS/RT Sport Edition! 3/4 of the wheels of a conventional car! All for the same price as a really nice used Honda with A/C that has a stereo, seats 4 and gets 50 miles to the gallon! NHTSA? WTF is that? Gay dudes will love you! Neighbors will tell the reporter "He always seemed kind of weird. Have you seen his flourescent green three wheeled car thing? I hear he paid $7,000 for it." So come to Big Mike's "this is seriously our last resort before we file for bankruptcy" buy-here pay-here today! Bring your wife! We'll berkeley her!"

Seriously though. Just buy an HX or VX Civic. Or a Festiva. Or whatever. Lease a Smart Car for $100 a month if you're that into S&M.

I wouldn't be caught dead in one of those Smart cars (although one run-in with a truck you probably would be dead ). I've been in a few at work and they just seem SUPER cheap and the engines sound terrible. Plus, in my opionion, they are hideously ugly.

This Elio is pretty cool in my book--looks better than a Smart car, has some character, kinda like a closed Can-Am Sypder. I'm not at all in the market for one, but if I lived in an urban area where a Smart/iQ/other micro car was needed, I would much rather drive this thing than those.

Just my $.02.

poopshovel wrote: Seriously though. Just buy an HX or VX Civic. Or a Festiva. Or whatever. Lease a Smart Car for $100 a month if you're that into S&M.

I don't get your argument.

HX/VX Civics are 45-50mpg cars... on the highway. This thing is rated at 84 on the highway. Entirely different league. And you are comparing a 20 year old car with likely 120k+ miles on it to something brand new?

Apples to Oranges. The Insight would almost be a fair comparison... if it were new.

ProDarwin wrote:

poopshovel wrote: Seriously though. Just buy an HX or VX Civic. Or a Festiva. Or whatever. Lease a Smart Car for $100 a month if you're that into S&M.

I don't get your argument. HX/VX Civics are 45-50mpg cars... on the highway. This thing is rated at 84 on the highway. Entirely different league. And you are comparing a 20 year old car with likely 120k+ miles on it to something brand new? Apples to Oranges. The Insight would almost be a fair comparison... if it were new.

Stop using logic to argue a point. Don't you know you're just supposed to blindly push your opinion and tell everyone else that theirs is dumb?
Cuz yeah, a Goldwing or a 20 year old car is the same thing.

The clap is even cheaper to get and it seems more appealing.

DrBoost wrote:

ProDarwin wrote:

poopshovel wrote: Seriously though. Just buy an HX or VX Civic. Or a Festiva. Or whatever. Lease a Smart Car for $100 a month if you're that into S&M.

I don't get your argument. HX/VX Civics are 45-50mpg cars... on the highway. This thing is rated at 84 on the highway. Entirely different league. And you are comparing a 20 year old car with likely 120k+ miles on it to something brand new? Apples to Oranges. The Insight would almost be a fair comparison... if it were new.

Stop using logic to argue a point. Don't you know you're just supposed to blindly push your opinion and tell everyone else that theirs is dumb? Cuz yeah, a Goldwing or a 20 year old car is the same thing.

Yeah, its cool to hate on the cars we need instead of the cars we want.
Honestly as well balanced as this board usually is I find it hilarious how unhinged people become about certain segments of cars just because they don't meet their standard of what a car should be. For people who claim to love cars they have a lot of blind hate. I've never met a car I didn't like, even the POSs, there's always something fun to find in them, if you cant find the fun in them you need to examine your love of cars in general.

The whole ‘buy a $1-7k used Hondota Civrolla sport5’ argument holds exactly zero weight outside of places like this. For most people owning an older car doesn’t make sense. They don’t have the skill, knowledge or experience to own an older car. This does not make them bad people, it just makes them different from many on here. Heck, I DD new cars, I have zero interest in doing anything beyond changing oil on an appliance. I never want to ‘have’ to do something to be able to drive to work in the morning again. Working on cars for me is purely for fun that I can walk away from any time I like and come back in a day, week, month etc. Also, even if this is classified as a motorcycle everyone knows that’s a legal loop hole. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck. So, this only has 3 wheels. Show a picture of it to a group of regular r people and ask them what it is and I’ll bet 95% of them say ‘a 3 wheel car’ not a motorcycle. So let’s cut the whole Goldwing thing out too. So that said, when you limit yourself to new cars this makes a lot more sense. I have to agree with others like AlfaDriver in that I’m not convinced it will fly financially in this country, but I hope I’m wrong and they get it out there.

The general concept does bring up an interesting question. Is there an argument to be made for city cars in general. There are plenty of Sub B vehicles on sale in other parts of the world that could this a good run for the money if they could be Federalized, if the market is there. The 500 isn’t exactly setting sales records is it.

ProDarwin wrote:

poopshovel wrote: Seriously though. Just buy an HX or VX Civic. Or a Festiva. Or whatever. Lease a Smart Car for $100 a month if you're that into S&M.

I don't get your argument. HX/VX Civics are 45-50mpg cars... on the highway. This thing is rated at 84 on the highway. Entirely different league. And you are comparing a 20 year old car with likely 120k+ miles on it to something brand new? Apples to Oranges. The Insight would almost be a fair comparison... if it were new.

They are claiming 84....there is no epa rating for it. I can claim my k1200s gets 84 too, but I'd be full of E36 M3. If my nx125 got 70mpg downhill brand new with next to no power I'll be very surprised if this thing hits 84.

bigdaddylee82 wrote: In reply to kb58: Granted not quite as practical, but they did great on style in my opinion: - Lee

$45k. That is close to $7k right?

Now that is a cool car.

Cotton wrote:

ProDarwin wrote:

poopshovel wrote: Seriously though. Just buy an HX or VX Civic. Or a Festiva. Or whatever. Lease a Smart Car for $100 a month if you're that into S&M.

I don't get your argument. HX/VX Civics are 45-50mpg cars... on the highway. This thing is rated at 84 on the highway. Entirely different league. And you are comparing a 20 year old car with likely 120k+ miles on it to something brand new? Apples to Oranges. The Insight would almost be a fair comparison... if it were new.

They are claiming 84....there is no epa rating for it. I can claim my k1200s gets 84 too, but I'd be full of E36 M3. If my nx125 got 70mpg downhill brand new with next to no power I'll be very surprised if this thing hits 84.

Err maybe not. Aero efficiency is one of the biggest factors in fuel economy. A bike isn't very efficient, this could be.