Minivan Battle

bluesideup wrote: Thank you for the insight about the legroom. I'm 6'5" and SWMBO is 5'8". I'm done buying vehicles I don't fit in comfortably. The best vehicles I've ever owned for legroom were my R53 MINI, long hood 911, & B5 Passat. I'll post back as to what I find in the search with my sidekick on Friday.

FWIW, I'm 6' and there's plenty of legroom in our '07 Odyssey. Perhaps the newer model got smaller, I don't know.

OTOH, the recent model Sienna I've driven (probably a '12 or so), had very poor driver's legroom and generally lousy ergonomics. Are you sure you didn't mix the two up?

bluesideup wrote: My wife has some Kia aversion related to driving a first generation Sportage for a while.

How long ago was that first generation Sportage? 15+ years ago? Things have changed a bit since the '90's. You're missing out on what may be the best van for you. We have 3 kids and have an '06 (first year of the current generation) Sedona, we bought new. It now has 106k miles on it and has been dead nuts reliable. Never left us stranded in nearly 8 years of ownership...and we have beaten the ever living piss out of it. Hauling the kids and their crap everywhere. I've had a tow hitch on it for at least 6 years now and it's hauled many cars on tow dollys, landscape trailers, etc...and has been great. The 5 speed auto trans is sturdy, I've just made sure to give it fluid/filter changes as needed. They come loaded with a ton of features for thousands less than Honda. Extremely versitile and comfortable. The only thing that kind of stinks is fuel mileage...but that's the price you pay for a van that can smoke it's tires easily.

I haven't driven a newer Honda, but have a ton of respect for them. Great vans, but to me not worth the huge premium over the Sedona...especially considering how much I've whipped my van. We rented a newer ChryCo van last summer for 2 weeks while we were vacationing. It was OK...nice interior, drove fairly well. However, it felt gutless, had questionable build quality (it had less than 30k miles on it), didn't handle very well and just wasn't anywhere close to the van the Kia is...or I presume the Honda to be.

Caravan have had a bad reliability history but one of the good things about Fiat's takeover was that it funded improvements to the van that the crippled Cerberus run Chrysler couldn't afford to do.

They are very solid vehicles. Great for the three kids.

Get one before they are gone.

PS I am also eyeing that new KIA Minivan.

In reply to codrus:

Nope, the Oddy's driver's seat definitely felt uncomfortable. There wasn't enough room between my knees and the dash, which is an issue I've noted on other Honda products. The seat couldn't be adjusted enough to make it work. To be clear, this was a 2011 model (current generation) but in LX trim (i.e. base model.) It's possible that the EX or EX-L trims have more adjustable seats but it didn't seem likely.

We're on our second Sedona now, a 2012 model. Both have been super reliable.

As much as I want to hate on Chyrsler, stow and go is berkeleying fantastic and I would feel like a dumbE36 M3 buying a minivan without that feature. Combine that with the lowest buy in of the bunch, and that gets my vote.

In reply to Klayfish:

I was going to go there but thought it pointless. Hell, people still judge Hyundai of the 1987 Excel. Kia isn't even the same company it was when the first gen sportage was released 20 years ago. Yes, they were complete piles of berkeley. But whatever. People make up their minds on a lot of things.

Yes, Hondar is having more problems with the latest gen of transmissions. Again. Nothing to see here.

Several years ago (possibly first year of Stow N Go), we rented a Grand Caravan for a family trip to a wedding. 3 kids (under 10) and 3 adults with a week's worth of stuff. Being able to stuff suitcases and stuff under the floor freed up a ton of room for the giant stroller that fit easily in the back. The interwebs has me concerned about Chrysler products by the only personal issues I've had regarded a bad transmission in a 1990 Dodge Spirit.

It's all personal choice but my wife rented a Kia minivan last summer for trip from NC to Minnesota. She really disliked that van, saying our 2003 MPV was better, YMMV.

I should have mentioned that when we rented the Chrysler, the Stow N Go was a neat little parlor trick. But I didn't think it alone made the van worth it when compared to a Sedona or Honda...or Toyota. Our Sedona is versitile enough and I can count on one hand the number of times we've ever been squeezed for storage room in it. If we ever have any storage shortage, we fold down part of the 3rd row which folds flat into the floor and voila...we've got a huge cargo area and still plenty of room for all 5 of us.

In reply to Klayfish:

Especially with only three kids, which is how we started. I was able to get in the van with the door closed during a downpour to handle diapers, coats and buckling, all while staying nicely dry.

With four kids, the big advantage is being able to stuff a bunch of crap under the seats and have a floor again, and at other points being able to have a giant flat-floor delivery wagon when all four back seats are folded down.

In reply to bluesideup:

I purchased a 2014 Dodge Grand Caravan with the Stow & Go package and LOVE IT. I bought it based on my brother's experience with his last 10 years of service on Chrysler Town & Countries as well as a buddy of mine that works as an engineer in warranty claims at Chrysler. My buddy says his wife will only drive the Dodge minivans and nothing else.

My experience with owning this van has been nothing but pleasure. Its utility is unsurpassed. I can haul almost anything I want in it including my 10 foot paddle board. It has been extremely reliably and we just got back from vacation and averaged 27 mpg. It gets about 30 mpg on the highway in eco-mode and about 21 mpg in the city with a light foot.

Hope this will help you in your decision.

tuna55 wrote: In reply to Klayfish: Especially with only three kids, which is how we started. I was able to get in the van with the door closed during a downpour to handle diapers, coats and buckling, all while staying nicely dry. With four kids, the big advantage is being able to stuff a bunch of crap under the seats and have a floor again, and at other points being able to have a giant flat-floor delivery wagon when all four back seats are folded down.

I was never even considering the storage room with seats up. I'm not a parent, so I see stow and go as: all the seats go very quickly. Can stuff the whole van with bicycles, stuff from the hardware store, craigslist furniture, etc.

A co-worker has one for just him and his wife, but uses it for all sorts of utilitarian things, and pops the seats up when he needs to carry more people. It works quite well.

In reply to tuna55:

Well...you, sir, are much braver than I. After we had our twins and we were at the 3 child mark, that was plenty for me.

Klayfish wrote: In reply to tuna55: Well...you, sir, are much braver than I. After we had our twins and we were at the 3 child mark, that was plenty for me.

Well after twins I might be a little gun shy too. A family at church had a kid, then a set of twins, then another set. They had five children all under six years old. Their van is bigger than mine.

Rick Goolsby wrote: In reply to bluesideup: I purchased a 2014 Dodge Grand Caravan with the Stow & Go package and LOVE IT. I bought it based on my brother's experience with his last 10 years of service on Chrysler Town & Countries as well as a buddy of mine that works as an engineer in warranty claims at Chrysler. My buddy says his wife will only drive the Dodge minivans and nothing else. My experience with owning this van has been nothing but pleasure. Its utility is unsurpassed. I can haul almost anything I want in it including my 10 foot paddle board. It has been extremely reliably and we just got back from vacation and averaged 27 mpg. It gets about 30 mpg on the highway in eco-mode and about 21 mpg in the city with a light foot. Hope this will help you in your decision.

Thank you for the info on the van, I'm glad to hear you're happy with it. I rented a T&C last year to move well over 1000lbs of tools and tool cabinets. It returned 25mpg while loaded so your numbers are plausible. My understanding is the Caravan R/T has a slightly higher spring rate for better handling.

As far as my SWMBO's Kia aversion I think some people can't look past a badge based on old history. I think they build some wonderful cars.

It's been so long since I looked at a vehicle I forgot about the issue of getting myself to fit. I'll report back which vans don't work for circus people.

codrus wrote: OTOH, the recent model Sienna I've driven (probably a '12 or so), had very poor driver's legroom and generally lousy ergonomics. Are you sure you didn't mix the two up?

Oh I haven't been in any of these vans yet except for the Dodge. Hopefully they all fit but I'm realistic that not everyone designs vehicles for people my size. The Ridgeline wasn't a good fit when I tried that 7 years ago but the Odyssey is most likely better.

So seeing as no one is tricking out Chrysler vans

Hold your horses, mister!

I've owned 7 chrysler minivans. I currently own 2. Both are turbocharged. One even has a manual transmission! Both are lowered 3+ inches and make loud noises and spin tires. They are way too old for this thread, but they are 'tricked out chrysler vans'.

I bought a 2014 Caravan R/T in June.. It now has nearly 14K miles. I LOVE IT! Stow and go is awesome. Blue Rays rolling on raod trips are sweet.. It rides great, has more power than it needs, and handles better than it should. There is nothing in the interior I really don't think could be described as cheap. It is a great place to be.

25mpg on the highway is easy..( if not pulling trailer or stuff piled on top) We average 22-23 mpg most of the time..

Pulling a stack of two Hobie 16's we still netted 16mpg running 80mph for 2200 miles.. Love that van..

I also have an 89 and a 90 Caravan. Both factory turbo vans which have been tricked out further.. One is a factory turbo 5spd van running a 16v Maserati/cosworth engine.

I own a sienna and have rented a bunch of chrsyler co minivans. The new chryslerco's with the pentastar are a very compelling combo.

i'm wiating for the new kia, but am a bit of a honda fanboi at heart... We shall see.

The chryslers were outclassed in the horsepower department for a long time, but the pentastar has turned those tables. Having that kind of power makes a big difference in the kind of fun you can have driving a minivan around.

I hadn't driven a minivan in quite a few years, until using a friends to pick their family up at the airport a few months ago...And, holy crap! I could never recommend any vehicle with as completely vague and numb of steering as the current generation Toyota Sienna. Every time there was a bend in the road, I got a little more religious.

ronholm wrote: I bought a 2014 Caravan R/T in June.. It now has nearly 14K miles. I LOVE IT! Stow and go is awesome. Blue Rays rolling on raod trips are sweet.. It rides great, has more power than it needs, and handles better than it should. There is nothing in the interior I really don't think could be described as cheap. It is a great place to be. 25mpg on the highway is easy..( if not pulling trailer or stuff piled on top) We average 22-23 mpg most of the time.. Pulling a stack of two Hobie 16's we still netted 16mpg running 80mph for 2200 miles.. Love that van.. I also have an 89 and a 90 Caravan. Both factory turbo vans which have been tricked out further.. One is a factory turbo 5spd van running a 16v Maserati/cosworth engine.

I'd like to drive one of these. Eventually I'll need something to replace the MPV, and I really hate the look of the new Oddyties, and the Sienna, well, you know, it's a Toyota. But I could buy the Chrysler/Dodge only if I could convince myself that it won't collapse into a paint-peeling pile of sheet metal with a worn-out front suspension two days after the warranty period expires!

1988RedT2 wrote: But I could buy the Chrysler/Dodge only if I could convince myself that it won't collapse into a paint-peeling pile of sheet metal with a worn-out front suspension two days after the warranty period expires!

We have the latest version and owned two of the previous gens and we didn't have ANY rust up here in eastern MA.

I have seen a few with rust-through but it's rare afaik.

Get the Dodge. It's really the only thing that Chrysler does well but they have it down to a science.

Driven5 wrote: I hadn't driven a minivan in quite a few years, until using a friends to pick their family up at the airport a few months ago...And, holy crap! I could never recommend any vehicle with as completely vague and numb of steering as the current generation Toyota Sienna. Every time there was a bend in the road, I got a little more religious.

That's not an issue with the Honda. I refuse to use the words "minivan" and "sporty" in the same sentence, so let's just say that Honda and Toyota each have their own corporate philosophy on vehicle dynamics, and it shows up even in their minivan products.