Mom has $25k for a newer minivan, courtesy of her kids...which to choose?

Hi all,

My original idea so many years ago has finally come to fruition:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/considering-buying-a-minivan-as-a-gift-but-have-so/64902/page1/

My two siblings got out of school a few years ago, we all have the means, so we bit the bullet and gave her the cash over Christmas. I'm tasked with helping find her a good minivan for that $25k. Should be easy, considering her DD for the past ten years has been a beat-up 2007 PT Cruiser, one of three identical Cruisers in the household fleet. Don't ask...

I know her loose requirements are that it needs to be newer, clean, low mileage, with some helpful features like third row stow, power doors, hopefully(?) power tailgate, and she requested onboard nav but I'm not prioritizing it. She doesn't have a strong preference for leather, large rims, etc. She's a professional photographer with her own studio, and does weddings on the side. Cargo space for lights, tripods, chairs, studio-related equipment, etc is a must. The plan is to keep for 3-5 years.

My current picks are as follows:

2015/2016 Odyssey EX/EX-L

2015/2016 Sienna SE/XLE

Question is - should I be looking at older versions of these vans, perhaps in higher trim levels? Seems to be a big drop-off in price between, say, a 2016 EX-L and 2012 Touring. Condition over everything, of course, but I personally don't see a big aesthetic or feature difference between 2012 and 2016.

For example, this one looks like a clean winner:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/727021496/overview/

But so does this:

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/712134205/overview/

Tough to get a hang of the depreciation drop on these vans. Thanks in advance for any input, wish me luck.

Unless you are dead-set on the imports, the  Chrysler / Dodge vans offer a lot of bang for the buck.  You could nearly buy a new one for $25K.  

If she's hauling stuff around, I'd highly recommend the full Stow & Go seating option these vans have.  They are remarkably versatile.

My 2014 now has about 31K trouble free miles, and I don't regret buying it for a second.   I'm a single guy with no kids, but I use the Stow & Go all the time.  I get about 19mpg in town, and 25 mpg at a steady 80mph on the highway.  I've gotten has high as 30mpg, but that was two-lane, 55mph cruising.  

IMHO, the imported vans don't justify the added cost.   

In reply to Joe Gearin :

Thanks for the vote of confidence on Chrysler - I'm wary of their more recent offerings but the van could still be solid, reliability-wise. I agree the second-row stow & go would be a big plus for her.

2-generation Sienna owner here (2007 sold with 189K, 2016 with 46K on it now).  Sienna's are great.  The 2007 was oil/tires/gas/breaks for the time we had it.  The 2016 is good, but the extra electronics have their glitches.  Integrated nav stinks.  Mrs. Wx wanted it, most times we just put up Waze on the iPhone.  2011 was the switchover to the current generation.  Gas mileage was a little better with the 2007 (usually got 19-22 mixed driving, sometimes saw 26 on all highway if we were careful).  The 2016 gets 18-20 for most things, with occasional 23-24 or all highway.  We love the Siennas, but the current generation lost some compared to the last one in our opinion.  Still good, but not quite as good.

Rear seats drop easily into the well in the trunk.  Can do 1/3rd, 2/3rds, or full rear seat.  Middle seats are on sliders to move forward and fold up some.  But no way to get a completely flat floor, at least not without lots of heavy lugging.

Joe Gearin makes a compelling argument for the Chrysler/Dodge twins.  Stow&Go for the middle row may be a big benefit for your mom.  Only vans with it.

If your mom need AWD, then the Sienna is your only choice.

-Mike

For $25 large you can buy a very nice, lightly used Town & Country Limited, which will have every option in the world, including power 3rd row stow-and-go (and everything else), 2-row DVDs, leather, sunroof, load-leveling rear suspension, yada yada. 

And have change left over. 

Or you can buy the nicest back-stock Grand Caravan there is, brand new. 

And also have change left over. 

If she's hauling photography stuff more often than people these days, the 2nd row Stow and Go of the Chryslers would certainly be the most functional.

Another option to consider is a Kia Sedona.  Honestly, you should have no trouble finding a Certified Pre-Owned 2017 LX with ~10k miles, and have more than just pocket change left over.  Starting in 2017, when the LX is equipped with the leather interior and larger infotainment display it also comes with Android Auto and Apple Carplay functionality built in.  Thus negating the need to go for a higher trim just to get nav, when you can just plug a smartphone in. 

The 'slide and spoon' (slide and stow) 2nd row isn't as space saving as Stow and Go, and seems like a cheap knock off of Stow and Go at first...But after having evaluated both for our family, I'd actually argue argue it's as good or better than Stow and Go the vast majority of the time when hauling people as or more often than stuff.  While you lose the 'full 4x8' cargo capacity with it, it's much faster and easier to switch between cargo and seating configurations if doing so with regularity.  It's a 2-motion in maybe 3-seconds operation. 

Overall, by comparison I think it makes the Sienna and previous-gen Odyssey interiors both feel unfortunately dated in appearance and functionality.  It's just feels like a nicer place to spend time to me.  The only want it doesn't appear to hit without going up in trim level (and subsequently price if sticking to 2017's for the built-in Android Auto/Carplay functionality) is the power tailgate. It is also slightly thirstier than its competitors. 

Failure to read the bottom paragraph on my part.  If she's hauling photo equipment, get the Dodge/Chrysler with stow-and-go, hands down.  With everything folded up, there is an unbelievably titanic space back there.  Like, put a sectional sofa in there and shut the hatch.

Skip the highest trims and buy the newest mid-level one you can find that has everything she wants.  Which means she can probably get a brand new Grand Caravan leftover, and keep it forever.

Another vote for the Sienna. we've had our 06 since 07, and it has been great!! reliable as gravity, and hauls ass, and lots of stuff with ease. The 07 and up (I believe) got the better engine with more power and no need to do timing belts.

If depreciation drop is a concern, I think you're looking in the right direction. Odyssey's and Sienna's hold their value insanely well. Chrysler & dodge drop like a rock. 

My brother has a late model Chrysler minivan; he puts a ton of miles on it and as far as I know it's been very reliable.  I haven't driven it, but from a passenger's point of view it's a pretty nice vehicle.  As mentioned by others, the stow and go seats are pretty slick.

The Chryslers seem like the right tool for the job. But if it's going to be sold in 3-5 years, then considering resale value might be worthwhile. The Chrysler vans get hosed on resale compared to some others. In a sense, you'd need to prioritize resale value vs functionality while she owned it. I suppose it might be an ok compromise to go with an import and just remove the 2nd row seats if she never used them and preferred the flat floor.

Before you buy an Odyssey, look into the oil ring issue with cylinder deactivation.  I'm not sure of all of the details, but a certain number of years are getting 3 cylinders' worth of new rings under an extended warranty for this.

I'm going to put in an out of the box suggestion.  Dodge Grand Caravans are much cheaper in Canada than the US.  New 2017 models start at $23k CDN which is about $18k USD.  The SXT with 2nd row stow & go is $27k CDN.  I know Oklahoma is no where near Canada, but for the price delta it could make sense to be creative and buy here and ship it, or fly and drive (say to detroit, buy in next door windsor).  You also may have to submit some paper work to have sales taxes refunded (13%).

Stow and go would work well for your mom. I have little kiddos with big safety seats so most of the benefit is lost on me. I’m a two time sienna owner, but wouldn’t hesitate with any of the vans out there save the Nissan    

If you can find a used Kia with the leather interior, go try it.  The seats and front front cockpit area win hands down in style and comfort.  

a Chrysler is the hands down favorite in this application.  as long as it has the stow and go seats.  The flexibility of the stow and go setup for a vehicle that is primarily tasked with hauling equipment is unparalleled  by anyone else.  You can easily find a properly equipped Grand caravan brand new for 25k.  I have an 09 GC and find it to be extremely durable, reliable and flexible.  We've used it for kids and cargo with no hiccups other than the plastic "y" connectors for the rear heating system.  Those are now replaced with aftermarket aluminum pieces.   My father-in-law has an 05 with stow and go also.  He only hauls equipment and he absolutely loved the last one until it got totaled NYE, we just got him another one with the pittance that thieving farmers insurance gave us for his old one.

I don't think you can really go wrong with whichever one she happens to like. If your mom is carrying so much camera equipment that she needs not just the rear row but also the middle row removed/down then she should probably have a helper. We happen to have a 2010 Odyssey EX-L that we bought for less than 25k in 2012/2013, my buddy just bought a 2015 EX for less than 25k so really your mom can have her pick.

Wxdude10 - Mike said:

2-generation Sienna owner here (2007 sold with 189K, 2016 with 46K on it now).  Sienna's are great.  The 2007 was oil/tires/gas/breaks for the time we had it.  The 2016 is good, but the extra electronics have their glitches.  Integrated nav stinks.  Mrs. Wx wanted it, most times we just put up Waze on the iPhone.  2011 was the switchover to the current generation.  Gas mileage was a little better with the 2007 (usually got 19-22 mixed driving, sometimes saw 26 on all highway if we were careful).  The 2016 gets 18-20 for most things, with occasional 23-24 or all highway.  We love the Siennas, but the current generation lost some compared to the last one in our opinion.  Still good, but not quite as good.

Rear seats drop easily into the well in the trunk.  Can do 1/3rd, 2/3rds, or full rear seat.  Middle seats are on sliders to move forward and fold up some.  But no way to get a completely flat floor, at least not without lots of heavy lugging.

Joe Gearin makes a compelling argument for the Chrysler/Dodge twins.  Stow&Go for the middle row may be a big benefit for your mom.  Only vans with it.

If your mom need AWD, then the Sienna is your only choice.

-Mike

Thanks Mike. I preferred the Odyssey over the newer Siennas in terms of layout; interesting to hear your preference for the older gen. That's the direction I would lean, but she's dead-set on having a vehicle not older than a few years. Fortunately, no AWD needed here.

Driven5 said:

If she's hauling photography stuff more often than people these days, the 2nd row Stow and Go of the Chryslers would certainly be the most functional.

Another option to consider is a Kia Sedona.  Honestly, you should have no trouble finding a Certified Pre-Owned 2017 LX with ~10k miles, and have more than just pocket change left over.  Starting in 2017, when the LX is equipped with the leather interior and larger infotainment display it also comes with Android Auto and Apple Carplay functionality built in.  Thus negating the need to go for a higher trim just to get nav, when you can just plug a smartphone in. 

The 'slide and spoon' (slide and stow) 2nd row isn't as space saving as Stow and Go, and seems like a cheap knock off of Stow and Go at first...But after having evaluated both for our family, I'd actually argue argue it's as good or better than Stow and Go the vast majority of the time when hauling people as or more often than stuff.  While you lose the 'full 4x8' cargo capacity with it, it's much faster and easier to switch between cargo and seating configurations if doing so with regularity.  It's a 2-motion in maybe 3-seconds operation. 

Overall, by comparison I think it makes the Sienna and previous-gen Odyssey interiors both feel unfortunately dated in appearance and functionality.  It's just feels like a nicer place to spend time to me.  The only want it doesn't appear to hit without going up in trim level (and subsequently price if sticking to 2017's for the built-in Android Auto/Carplay functionality) is the power tailgate. It is also slightly thirstier than its competitors. 

Great idea - I checked out the newer Kia's and they look every bit as good interior-wise as the others. Slide-n-stow is still a big plus over the Odyssey/Sienna and should give her just as much functionality as the T&C/GC.

Duke said:

Failure to read the bottom paragraph on my part.  If she's hauling photo equipment, get the Dodge/Chrysler with stow-and-go, hands down.  With everything folded up, there is an unbelievably titanic space back there.  Like, put a sectional sofa in there and shut the hatch.

Skip the highest trims and buy the newest mid-level one you can find that has everything she wants.  Which means she can probably get a brand new Grand Caravan leftover, and keep it forever.

Can't say I'm the biggest fan of the GC styling, but the price seems right. I'll have her check one out, thanks!

Mazdax605 said:

Another vote for the Sienna. we've had our 06 since 07, and it has been great!! reliable as gravity, and hauls ass, and lots of stuff with ease. The 07 and up (I believe) got the better engine with more power and no need to do timing belts.

lnlogauge said:

If depreciation drop is a concern, I think you're looking in the right direction. Odyssey's and Sienna's hold their value insanely well. Chrysler & dodge drop like a rock. 

stuart in mn said:

My brother has a late model Chrysler minivan; he puts a ton of miles on it and as far as I know it's been very reliable.  I haven't driven it, but from a passenger's point of view it's a pretty nice vehicle.  As mentioned by others, the stow and go seats are pretty slick.

STM317 said:

The Chryslers seem like the right tool for the job. But if it's going to be sold in 3-5 years, then considering resale value might be worthwhile. The Chrysler vans get hosed on resale compared to some others. In a sense, you'd need to prioritize resale value vs functionality while she owned it. I suppose it might be an ok compromise to go with an import and just remove the 2nd row seats if she never used them and preferred the flat floor.

codrus said:

Before you buy an Odyssey, look into the oil ring issue with cylinder deactivation.  I'm not sure of all of the details, but a certain number of years are getting 3 cylinders' worth of new rings under an extended warranty for this.

 

Snrub said:

I'm going to put in an out of the box suggestion.  Dodge Grand Caravans are much cheaper in Canada than the US.  New 2017 models start at $23k CDN which is about $18k USD.  The SXT with 2nd row stow & go is $27k CDN.  I know Oklahoma is no where near Canada, but for the price delta it could make sense to be creative and buy here and ship it, or fly and drive (say to detroit, buy in next door windsor).  You also may have to submit some paper work to have sales taxes refunded (13%).

Fueled by Caffeine said:

Stow and go would work well for your mom. I have little kiddos with big safety seats so most of the benefit is lost on me. I’m a two time sienna owner, but wouldn’t hesitate with any of the vans out there save the Nissan    

If you can find a used Kia with the leather interior, go try it.  The seats and front front cockpit area win hands down in style and comfort.  

Brian said:

a Chrysler is the hands down favorite in this application.  as long as it has the stow and go seats.  The flexibility of the stow and go setup for a vehicle that is primarily tasked with hauling equipment is unparalleled  by anyone else.  You can easily find a properly equipped Grand caravan brand new for 25k.  I have an 09 GC and find it to be extremely durable, reliable and flexible.  We've used it for kids and cargo with no hiccups other than the plastic "y" connectors for the rear heating system.  Those are now replaced with aftermarket aluminum pieces.   My father-in-law has an 05 with stow and go also.  He only hauls equipment and he absolutely loved the last one until it got totaled NYE, we just got him another one with the pittance that thieving farmers insurance gave us for his old one.

Jaynen said:

I don't think you can really go wrong with whichever one she happens to like. If your mom is carrying so much camera equipment that she needs not just the rear row but also the middle row removed/down then she should probably have a helper. We happen to have a 2010 Odyssey EX-L that we bought for less than 25k in 2012/2013, my buddy just bought a 2015 EX for less than 25k so really your mom can have her pick.

Thanks all - I'll be showing her some newer T&C, GC, and Sedona minivans as soon as possible. After that, we have some math and deciding to do on how long she realistically plans to own, and weigh the resale along with everything else. Sorry for the late responses, ghost replies on mobile. Will update on what she gets!

In reply to OSULemon :

Actually, quite a bit hinges on the decision for how long she plans to own it.

I keep my cars a long time, so I tend to buy new or nearly new.  That's why I recommend a new Grand Caravan in the nicest trim that fits her budget - if it were me, I'd be keeping it 10 years (or more).  The intial depreciation hit doesn't mean as much to me because it's going to average out on the flatter part of the curve.

But if she's only going to hang onto it 3 or 4 years anyway, it might be worth buying a slightly older Honda or Toyota that's going to hold value better, assuming they fit the bill.

How long.... 

Let's say your kids do a great thing and spring for the full purchase of a NEW CAR, how quickly do you think you would get rid of that car? 

In my world, I would imagine you would keep that wonderful gift (and symbol of your great kids) for a long, long time. 

I'm with Duke on this one. An outgoing Grand Caravan that is 100% new and 100% the equipment/color she wants would be the way to go. It would also send the right message for this gift (in my opinion.) 

There must be some good incentives to be had on the outgoing Chrysler. 

I would think a modestly equipped new GC could be had under $25k

John Welsh said:

I would think a modestly equipped new GC could be had under $25k

A nicely equipped new GC can be had for $25k.  A modestly equipped one can be had closer to $20k.

The best option on paper is not always the best option.

Brand spankin new GC SE’s are $20-$22k sticker. 3.6 liters of tire melting power, metric berkeley-tons of storage, etc. Use the rest for tax, doc fees, and a garmin if she really needs nav.

Caravans