NA miata, 1.6 vs 1.8 preferences? inspired by owners thread

tuna55 wrote:

imarcr2 wrote: Buy the best car you can afford That being said normally aspirated a 1.6 with intake header and exhaust makes for a really nice combo. On the right road like Deals Gap it is a blast. Counterpoint, if you go FI, get a 1.8. Better differential, more options to build big HPs

Thanks man, that's a great comment. I think you're more productive in four lines than the rest of the last two pages combined. Do the header and intake swap from 1.8 to 1.6?

Even if they do, i wouldn't really bother. Aftermarket stuff isn't that expensive, and i doubt the 1.8 stuff would do anything noticeable for you.

djhives wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

djhives wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

djhives wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

djhives wrote:

Javelin wrote: In reply to djhives: You're an idiot. Everybody is thinking it, but I'm gonna say it. You = IDIOT. The 1.8 was available in dozens of different sporty cars all over the world. It was NOT developed just for the US. It also does not "rev faster". It's a better engine because it has less crank issues, utilizes coil-on-plug ignition, has a sturdier CAS, and has a more usable power band.

Dude- whos everybody? The HERD YOU BELONG TO -- sorry dude I dont play your sheep game - I have my OWN opinions -- like I told the guy above, I DID NOT SAY the 1.8 wasnt in other cars - it was PUT into the miata to satisfy power demands. Mazda could have put the 1.8 in the miata in 89 - but DIDNT becasue it was perfect... the 1.6 revs faster - I got BOTH - they're two different feels! And who cares about the CAS on the 1.6 - its not a make or break deal -- other than the short nose on the early 1.6, the 8 slotted 1.6 feels better and is just as reliable as the 1.8 --- if you jsut want power do the larger 1.8 but the balance is thrown off in more ways than one

No they couldn't have. For some pretty blatantly obvious reasons. The most obvious being that the 1.8 was in existence yet. But, they already had the B6, thanks to the 323/Familia. I'm curious how the balance is thrown off when you put the "larger" 1.8 in... you think it weighs appreciably more or something?

Dude, they could have put ANY engine into the miata in 89 - they chose the best for that very reason. The 1.8 does FEEL different! its a MIATA - a shock tower brace and minute tire air pressure changes make HUGE differences on a super light vehicle-- so of course it makes a difference I have BOTH and they feel night and day (relativley speaking of course) Look im not a FAN-BOY -- I like ALL cars - so I dont take sides with this "mine is better than yours just becasue its what I own" I got 2 1.8s and 1 1.6 miatas, fords, Isuzus - all types of cehicles becasue I LOVE CARS -- so I just call things for what they are... 1.8 MORE POWER ... 1.6 MORE RAW FEELING/BALANCED/REV HAPPY when i rev my 1.8 it GOES there but it doesnt FEEEEEL like its getting there.... Yes, sure I moved, and moved faster than the 1.6 -- but in the 1.6 I can FEEL every last RPM all the way through... lol no wonder why Mada put the fake oil pressure guage on the 1.8 NAs...lol.... they figured NOBODY WOULD KNOW THE DIFFERENCE... to me the feeling is just as "MINUTE" as that fake oil pressure guage -- in the one with the real guage it just FEEELS like a sports car! On my 1.8 that oil pressure guage not moving just pisses me off... but its not psycological - the 1.8 is FASTER the 1.6 is FUNNER the 1.8 should have been turbocharged from the factory

Words fail me. I hope your stay is truncated in very short order.

LOL - I hope YOUR stay is truncated in very short order as well! Sorry dude, I dont think like the masses - you ought to try thinking about miatas on your own, instead of following the "a sponsor on miatanet said it was true so it is" FLOCK.

If you had a clue about what and/or you were talking to, or merely had the wherewithall to click the "garage" portion in my username, you'll find that i have no problem disagreeing with anyone or going outside the "norm" when it comes to modifying cars. Nor in fact, do i even currently own a miata. Nor am i a member of any Miata forums. My stay will not be truncated. I'm kindof a big deal.

are you a miatanet e-god... or let me guess "a sponsor" you said what you wanted to say, I said my piece youll find if you read cloley that djhives does NOT try to call your opinion stupid, he justs states his mind and doesnt back down....

If you aren't going to read the posts you are replying to, why bother quoting them?

The best solution to the 1.6/1.8 debate is to own both.

Since you can find some killer cars that are still Challenge eligible, you can find a pair of great cars for under $4k.

alfadriver wrote: They teach thinking over at Miata.net.

Except if you sway too far from accepted appearances (racing Beat Type II is the only acceptable bumper modification) or ask a question about HID lights (HID are illegal and H4s are superior to even Jesus' headlights), then, its God have mercy on your soul.

M.net is great, once you know what to ask.

I meant are the aftermarket pieces the same between a 1.8 and 1.6, Ben...

tuna55 wrote: I meant are the aftermarket pieces the same between a 1.8 and 1.6, Ben...

Oh gotcha. I don't think they are, but i'm not sure if it's due to bolt pattern with the exhaust manifold studs or due to clearance to oil pan.

Javelin wrote: In reply to djhives: You're an idiot.

Come on guy. No need for personal insults here.

There are tuners for 1.6L engines (Chikara Motorsports comes to mind)...it just depends on how much money you are willing to throw at it. Will a built NA go as fast as a built NB? Not likely. Does that mean it is worse in some way shape or form? No. To many people feel there is 'no replacement for displacement'. That isn't always the case. A B6 block is a little more free revving than a BP block and seem to have a flatter power band. There have even been some amazing builds (http://clubroadster.net/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=18582).

The bottom line is build what you like and what you can actually control. A poor driver in a 1.8L won't beat a good driver in a 1.6L.

I'm guessing the OEM oil pressure gauge on my 1.8L-equipped '94, that reads up to 90PSI, with markers in 30PSI increments, was put on by someone else?
at any rate, I prefer the 1.8L due to the better overall package it came in

The "idiot light" oil pressure gauge started in '95. So 94's have the best of both worlds, the 1.8 and a real gauge.

Xceler8x wrote:

Javelin wrote: In reply to djhives: You're an idiot.

Come on guy. No need for personal insults here.

Sorry, but djhives earned it.

Javelin wrote:

Xceler8x wrote:

Javelin wrote: In reply to djhives: You're an idiot.

Come on guy. No need for personal insults here.

Sorry, but djhives earned it.

It's not often we ever agree.... but we agree.

I have a 92 with 199k miles on it. I bolted on a used JR supercharger 3k miles ago and it is still going strong.

I expected it to grenade soon after the SC install but it won't die even with my crappy MSPNP tune.

Since I missed all the djhives idiocy, I just saw this thread.

Re:crank noses. The 1991-93 1.6 had the same crank nose as all the 1.8 versions. It will break if the crank bolt isn't torqued properly, but that's a mechanic problem.

Re:CAS. the 1.8 CAS will fit a 1.6.

Re: rev-happiness. The cams in the 1.6 are biased more towards the top end, and the engine does rev a little more sweetly than the 1.8. Of course, it also doesn't really do anything below 4k as a tradeoff, but that's a sports car engine for you. You can wake up the 1.8 as well - my Targa engine would happily spin to 8k.

The long nose 1.6 and the 1.8 are really the same engine. There are some differences in dimensions driven by the larger bore spacing required by the bigger bore and Mazda used different cams, but that's really about it. They're both the same strength. You see more tuning parts for the 1.8 for the simple reason that, given the same amount of effort, the 1.8 will always perform better and it's an easy swap in place of a 1.6. I've built both, and they both perform well. You just get more from the bigger engine.

As for the rest of the package - OBD-II, ring gear size, LSD type, etc - the 1994+ cars do have some notable improvements. But the 1990-93 have a better dash:)

Haha, so today I left a deposit on a 94' miata, b/c it was such a good deal. I drove 5 miatas, 3 NAs and 2 NBs. The NBs definitely had way better low end, the NAs revved way smoother. From a fresh perspective of a person who hasn't driven miatas that much yet, the 94' I put a deposit down, I didn't even know it was a 1.8, but I did note that it wasn't as free revving as the 90 and 92 I drove. I thought it was just me! Am I making a mistake buying this 94 w/ 1.8? I also just found out it had a R package (from reading the forums), the owner didn't even know!

Xceler8x wrote:

Javelin wrote: In reply to djhives: You're an idiot.

Come on guy. No need for personal insults here.

He's not your guy, friend!

Hah! Ocean Eleven's balloon boy speech. Classic.

tuna55 wrote: I love OBD-II, why would you avoid it?

I didn't even know anyone out there liked OBD2. Do you not have plug in emissions inspections in your state?

drinks on race1ab, FlightService, and Taiden.

arguing a zombie thread- you should know better.

I could be wrong, but when the NA went from the 1.6 to the 1.8, didn't the rear end change to a higher final drive? I've been told that this essentially nullifies any overall performance gain the 1.8's extra HP and torque provide. It was only when the NB switched back to the lower final drive plus a few more HP improvements in 99 that the Miata really woke up - well, relatively speaking. :)

I don't have experience with 1.8 NAs. One day, 10 years ago, I took a fun run in a friend's brand spanking new 2001 Miata. Showroom stock, right down to the OEM tires. That single run was 0.6 second slower than my best run in my 1990 with Koni Sports and R-compounds. With another run or two to get more used to the NB, I probably could've beat my own car.

I keep saying that my next Miata will be an NB. But then I keep falling into good deals on known good 1.6 NAs.

alfadriver wrote: drinks on race1ab, FlightService, and Taiden. arguing a zombie thread- you should know better.

doh!

Hey, hkssupra started it!

What's better than drinking before 11am on a Sunday? Drinks all around!

hkssupra91 wrote: Haha, so today I left a deposit on a 94' miata, b/c it was such a good deal. I drove 5 miatas, 3 NAs and 2 NBs. The NBs definitely had way better low end, the NAs revved way smoother. From a fresh perspective of a person who hasn't driven miatas that much yet, the 94' I put a deposit down, I didn't even know it was a 1.8, but I did note that it wasn't as free revving as the 90 and 92 I drove. I thought it was just me! Am I making a mistake buying this 94 w/ 1.8? I also just found out it had a R package (from reading the forums), the owner didn't even know!

Weird... i found all the NBs i drove stronger everywhere.

Buying a 94R is never a mistake, that's my grail. Enjoy!

Racer1ab wrote: Hey, hkssupra started it! What's better than drinking before 11am on a Sunday? Drinks all around!

Not an excuse- not even a "reader".

Second round this Sunday on W&N and Celica.

note- I'm a big fan of good rum.

As for the tread (I'll pass around a round of burbon), how can you argue a pair of questions where both of the answers are "yes?" There is no wrong answer.

Well, unless you are an ass about it. Then YOU are wrong.

Taiden wrote:

tuna55 wrote: I love OBD-II, why would you avoid it?

I didn't even know anyone out there liked OBD2. Do you not have plug in emissions inspections in your state?

OBD-II is great. Instead of trying to figure out what's wrong with the car, it simply tells you. And you can plug into it with widely available tools and read most of the sensors in real time.

The higher final drive on the 1994-97 cars doesn't nullify the performance gains from the 1.8 if you actually check the numbers. 0-60 dropped by 0.6 seconds, 1/4 mile dropped by 0.4 seconds and gained 3 mph trap speeds. Not earth-shattering, no, but still usefully better. The NB did gain more performance, but it also gained more power.

More importantly, the 1.8 isn't as happy spinning fast on the highway so it's much more pleasant with a 4.1. The 1999-05 cars with the 4.3 rear aren't as sweet on the highway. With the 1.8, I much prefer the 4.1.

1994Rs aren't a big favorite of mine. Crap suspension and manual steering, while I prefer non-crap suspension and power steering. Nice air dam though, and the manual steering means you can find them from non-Miata weenies for less. The Targa Miata is a 1994R, but you'd never know it without the VIN.