NC MIATA in a nut shell...

My NB is getting tired and I am thinking of buying an NC in the fall when prices drop. What do I need to know, and why does the NÇ seem to lack the fanboi love of the earlier cars?

I am interested in the responses here as well...

Early ones were awkward looking and didn't really feel as nimble as the na/nb. Still a sports car, but can feel like a GT car compared to na/nb.

I like them. At least starting 2013.

I think that part of why people rave the earlier cars is because the earlier ones are significantly cheaper. For some of us broke folks, the NA or NB are the ones to buy first. Then, for guys that do have NC Miata money, some may actually be buying C5 Corvettes, Boxsters, S2000's, WRX's, and other higher powered performance cars.

I just got an 2007 NC after owning a 1990 for 8 years. I love the power and can't wait to get new shocks, springs and sways on it. It feels awful on the highway. Oddly enough it feels much better than my 90 in the corners. If I remember Keith Tanner's description of the handling he called it wallowing. It didn't get it at first until you get it on the highway.

With that all said I really really like the car!

I have a 09' that is my DD. I love it. It makes driving fun everywhere I go. It is a better miata. I think the deterrent is price but you can find early NC's for the same money as late model NB's. Prices will come down once the ND is revealed and released.

With a little work it is a very capable car

1966stang wrote: My NB is getting tired and I am thinking of buying an NC in the fall when prices drop. What do I need to know, and why does the NÇ seem to lack the fanboi love of the earlier cars?

Because they are still pricey for most to turn in to dual duty cars or track rats.

Take an equally prepped NC vs NA/NB, and it's literally better in every way.

(Yes, I'm doing it again)

What's your budget? I have a very nice '06 GT with only 44k miles I'm about to put up for sale.

Was the the NC that different before and after they revised the suspension ('09?). I am contemplating an early NC later this yr as a nice weather DD since my beater Camry is getting on in age and a nice low miata might be cheaper than selling the Camry and buying something new and a toy.

09+ = forged internals, 500rpm higher redline, stronger trans(in 6 speed manual), and I believe the rates and valving were different in the sport suspension. I had an 08 a few years ago and I don't remember a big difference in the stock suspensions.

With a good set of coilovers, sways, wheels/tires the car is a whole lot of capable.

And just in case you have never seen this

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ3x462rlmg

And think how much quicker that lap would have been without the 911 holding him up at the beginning and the other cars he comes across.

The NC is a hugely capable machine.

I am seriously considering getting one entirely based on the fact that I'm going to have a ton of RX-8 parts to throw at it.

Including the differential, which apparently does work even if it isn't a bolt-in.

The NC isn't any more expensive at this point than the NB was 8 years ago, or the NA 15 years ago. The base price of the NC is less than the base price of the original NA in corrected dollars. So the whole "they're too expensive" excuse doesn't work. Of course, the majority of internet fanbois tend to be highly budget oriented so you do get a skewed viewpoint. 8 and 15 years ago, people didn't take pride making cars look like crap.

The NA and NB felt wonderful right off the lot. You could do a lot with them to improve them, but they really were good. The NC, not so much. Mazda didn't get the suspension right until 2012 or 2013. The 2009 rework helped with some engine internals (on the manual cars only, BTW) and a less blobby face, but the suspension still sucked. Easy enough to upgrade, but people don't test drive upgraded cars. There are a lot of poor aftermarket options on the market, by the way - NC owners are obsessed with coil overs and RX8 parts-bin raiding, and not always to their benefit. But seriously, that stock suspension was SO bad. Sport and base.

I've always felt that the NA/NB were great sports cars in that they felt faster than they really were. Sure, they were quick enough on track, but they were really entertaining just on a back road without a standard of reference. The NC is faster than it feels. Great for track work, but blah for the street. The steering feel is not as good as the earlier cars either. So they missed the core of drivers that really fanned the Miata flame.

The engine is also fairly anonymous. The 1.6 loves to rev and was purposefully cammed to reward 4000 rpm plus. The 1.8 was similar but with a bit more torque. The 2.0 is just blah. It never makes an interesting noise. It has a torque curve that doesn't soar, it just sits. Again, that can be really quick, but it does not raise the pulse rate. The 148 rwhp 1.6 I have in my Locost is a marvel with an operatic engine note and the most ridiculous number of pops and roars and crackles and howls. I've never heard an MZR sing, even though a stock one will run and hide from that particular 1.6.

For track work, it's basically impossible to get a roll bar that works well and keeps the soft top and the passenger's seat. The power hardtop cars essentially cannot get any roll protection. That's a problem. It's why the NC hasn't been adopted by the track day crowd the same way as prices drop.

Now, you can make them really fun. I had a riot of a time on our local track with a supercharger, an FM suspension and Kumho XS tires that were just not up to the task. It was like driving the Locost, a constant negotiation for grip with every dynamic behavior available that left me laughing like an idiot. I think part of the key was the tires - you can put much bigger tires on an NC (we have 255s on one of our cars) and that can end up with a car with too much grip for the power level. This car was well balanced between tires, power and chassis, so it was playful in a way that is fairly rare for an NC.

It IS a really nice platform, though. Our V8 NC is an amazing little thing, and that's in large part due to the package. Good suspension, stiff chassis, the power roof, automatic climate control - it's a modern car. Well, relatively modern, it doesn't have Bluetooth and Connect and all the mobile stuff. If the seats fit you, it's a great way to cross the country. As noted, they're faster than they feel so they can be pretty rewarding on the track in terms of lap times. Nancy, our supercharged NC, surprised us with how quick it was when we ran it back to back with one of our turbo NB on better tires. But I still prefer to drive that NB, because it's just more fun.

Keith Tanner wrote: The NC isn't any more expensive at this point than the NB was 8 years ago, or the NA 15 years ago. The base price of the NC is less than the base price of the original NA in corrected dollars. So the whole "they're too expensive" excuse doesn't work.

I guess I don't get this. Talk about the past, future, the Dark Ages, it seems irrelevant.

Today, in 2014 you can buy a clean VVT car for $5000. Unless you want a 5spd without the stock LSD and an NC with 150k miles on it, a similarly clean NC will be more like $10k. (Excluding all the chest thumping "I purchased a 2009 with 60k miles for $6500 deals)

That $5k difference buys a lot of "Track prep" for a vehicle.

Oh, I know that $5k will buy a lot of track prep. It's what I do for a living.

The past isn't irrelevant. The NC, at this point in its life cycle, is not being adopted by the budget track crowd the same way the NB was at the same point in its life cycle, or the NA. Prices aren't really any different. You may not remember, but it took FOREVER for the NA to drop below $10k even though it started closer to that point. I remember a friend with a 1993 buying the car new and driving for free for three years with no depreciation. They still infested track day parking lots though, even if you could buy something like a 260Z for less.

So, with some perspective, it's easy to see that something is different about the car. It's not the "too expensive" argument, it's something else.

The vendors saw it as well. NC owners didn't spend as much on performance equipment as NA and NB ones at the same point in the life cycle. More sparkle, yes, but less zoom. The car attracted a different demographic - or more accurately, did not attract a certain sub-demographic.

Interestingly, MSM owners were a very distinct bunch from other NB buyers as well for the first 4-5 years.

Thanks for the responses. I am at the what comes next point in my thinking.

I guess the next question is how much money do I throw at my aging NB?

1966stang wrote: I guess the next question is how much money do I throw at my aging NB?

What do you want to do with it and what do you mean by aging?

I'd drive an NC first.

Just remember, NA owners hated the NB when it came out, too.

66 where are you located?

Awesome details Keith as we'd expect.

What is your recipe (both mild power and handling) for a fun 99% DD with occasional autocross or track day (assuming PRHT or Harddog M3 or similar bar) Emphasis on fun and DD, not on competitiveness.

thx

z31maniac wrote:

1966stang wrote: I guess the next question is how much money do I throw at my aging NB?

What do you want to do with it and what do you mean by aging?

And it also depends on if said aged Miata is in your possesion with no bills or liens against it.

Once it warms up a little I'll take a really close look at my '99 to decide between it or a different Miata. NC is part of the choices, although, my personal gripe is the 6 speed. Seems pointless, since most people don't track the car, and it's not a great cruising top gear- it's just more of them. Interesting to put an engine with a more broad torque curve, more power, and more overall torque, and give it more gears.... huh?

Still, my impression of the NC when I drove them is that it IS better than the NB. Just not enough better for me to change. I thought the NB WAS that much better than the NA that I bought it right away. That being said- your bias of that measure changes if the car is totally paid off or has any decent value left in it. My NA had some value left when I got the NB, but the NB had less value left when I looked at the NC.

Complicated decision, these are....

z31maniac wrote:

1966stang wrote: I guess the next question is how much money do I throw at my aging NB?

What do you want to do with it and what do you mean by aging?

I want to drive it another 100,000 miles on the street and find something else to auto-x. It needs a top, the Ohio tin worm is starting to set in, and it has mild accident damage. it needs an afternoon on the frame rack to true it up, a front bumper cover, a top, and a rear quarter panel if I feel generous. mechanically it is 100 percent. i just feel kind of stupid putting a couple grand in a car that is getting a little rusty (around seams, inside trunk, et al.)

I have thought about buyign a cheap rust free VVT NB from the Southwest, keeping it for a summer car, putting the aftrmarket goodies on it, and keeping this car for a beater.

alfadriver wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

1966stang wrote: I guess the next question is how much money do I throw at my aging NB?

What do you want to do with it and what do you mean by aging?

And it also depends on if said aged Miata is in your possesion with no bills or liens against it. Once it warms up a little I'll take a really close look at my '99 to decide between it or a different Miata. NC is part of the choices, although, my personal gripe is the 6 speed. Seems pointless, since most people don't track the car, and it's not a great cruising top gear- it's just more of them. Interesting to put an engine with a more broad torque curve, more power, and more overall torque, and give it more gears.... huh? Still, my impression of the NC when I drove them is that it IS better than the NB. Just not enough better for me to change. I thought the NB WAS that much better than the NA that I bought it right away. That being said- your bias of that measure changes if the car is totally paid off or has any decent value left in it. My NA had some value left when I got the NB, but the NB had less value left when I looked at the NC. Complicated decision, these are....

Exactly-I ahve no leans on the car-It got minor damage when my younger son drove it off road learning to drive stick. State Farm was very generous with a check, I still ahve a clean title. So i ahve essentially a free Miata with 128K onthe clock, everything mechanical is fresh-tires, timing belt, brakes, tune up, et al.

If nothing else, considering what I could actually sell this for, I think some cheap undercoating and keep driving this. but my wife would like soemthing newer.

Thanks everyone for the comments so far. There seems to be some compelling reasons to look into a NC. SWMBO is not going to be pleased...

I still think the NB is one of the nicest looking cars ever made and I much prefer them to an NA, sort in the same way I like the 'square-tail' Spitfires and GT6 over the earlier 'round-tail' cars.

If I were looking at a NC, I'd probably get a power roof version. Looking at the specs, there doesn't seem to be much of a weight penalty over the soft top.