Need Help with FF sway bars

Hey guys, I have an Acura RSX-S and I want to get some sway bars to reduce roll, but don't know if I should get front and rear bars or a rear only? I know a stiffer rear bar (going from a 19mm to 23mm) will reduce under steer, but would I greatly improve my performance by then also stiffening the front bar (23mm to a 25mm)? Or should I just get the rear bar and keep the stock front bar?

I daily drive the car on stock suspension, but I plan on doing occasional track events and putting a decent spring/shock combo on.

So what handling differences should I expect with and without a stiffer front bar to complement the rear bar? Also, should the bars be installed with the suspension at static rest or full droop? Thanks for any info and help!!!

Follow the directions to install.

I would just go with a stiffer rear if only fitting bars. Im one to do stiffer springs first

Why necessarily springs first?

Install at full droop, for safety. You can get away with static rest on a flat surface, but if it's not totally flat there could be some load in the bar when you remove the links which would be dangerous.

Because swaybars take away traction by design. And stock springs are almost always too soft.

Jaxmadine wrote: Because swaybars take away traction by design. And stock springs are almost always too soft.

^True. You don't want to run harder sway bars than you have to. A "mostly sway bar" setup like modern BMWs have is good for giving good comfort with decent handling but it's not a great performance setup. If you're planning to change your springs & shocks anyway...do that first, you'll end up with a better setup later.

That's a serious oversimplification, to say sway bars take away traction.

If a car is going to have very close to the same amount of net roll, yes, you're making one end grip less to make the other end grip more, and the result usually is a little less total grip.

BUT, if you have a car which rolls too much, you may even reduce understeer by adding a bigger front bar, because the reduction in roll uses the tires more effectively, offsetting the relative increase in weight transfer across the front tires.

I don't have a problem with the advice to go to stiffer springs, though. It's all down to what you want in the end.

Its an rsxs. They dont roll that bad. Understeer a bit, but not too much roll

ransom wrote: That's a serious oversimplification, to say sway bars take away traction.

Not in terms of accel/decel (which is how I saw it) - you're pulling upwards on the inside wheel which can't be good for anything but cornering.

Usually it's only a problem on corner exit, on FWD cars some people like to remove stock front sway bars to get less wheelspin there.

Camber bolts up front and a big bar in the rear.

It takes a TON of rear spring to get the RSX to rotate due to the suspension design.

Thanks for all the great info!

Jax, you say RSX's dont roll too much, does that mean you feel the best benefit (with springs) would come from a stiffer rear bar and stock front bar?

Gameboy, would installing a rear bar on ramps (wheels on) put more load on the bar compared to if the car were on level ground? It wouldn't seem so, but it does seems like installing the suspension at full droop (wheels off) would put more load on the bar because it's not at a base resting position? Unless if only matters if the suspension is at opposite angles... correct me if I'm missing something.

In reply to 240TrackX:

Installing the bar at normal ride or at droop won't load the bar, but may load the bushings. That is, it shouldn't induce any twist across the bar.

If tenable, I'd do the installation however is easiest and safest, but not fully tighten the bar bushing clamps 'til it's on the ground (if you can do that).

In theory, since aftermarket bars are probably on urethane (sliding/rotating) and not rubber (bonded inner and outer, twist when moved, loaded anytime not at rest) it shouldn't matter, but urethane's not a great sliding-interface material, so you could wind up with the rear bar trying ever so slightly to hold the car up. I wouldn't worry about it excessively if it's a pain.

If the bushings are binding so badly it's really a problem, the whole system isn't going to work very well.

240TrackX wrote: Gameboy, would installing a rear bar on ramps (wheels on) put more load on the bar compared to if the car were on level ground? It wouldn't seem so, but it does seems like installing the suspension at full droop (wheels off) would put more load on the bar because it's not at a base resting position? Unless if only matters if the suspension is at opposite angles... correct me if I'm missing something.

It only matters if the two sides of the suspension are at different heights. If the suspension is level there's no load on the sway bar. However, unless you have a known-level garage floor it's hard to be sure of this, in full droop any suspension will be at exactly the same height on each side (unless the bar is biased like a circle-track setup), so for extra safety it's best to jack up the axle you're changing the sway bar on.

Yes. Stiffer rear stock front. Thats what i would run.

Thanks guys! Installed the rear bar a few weeks ago and I LOVE the improved balance and significantly reduced understeer!

So, when I install stiffer shocks and springs, is there a reason why I should ever want/need a stiffer front bar? Will it aid in overall handling at that time, or would it just bring the understeer back?

Like most things. It depends. A lot.

Try the hotchkis competition bar set (front AND rear).

I have a ep3 civic, very similar chassis; totally transformed the car. The car is balanced w/ the front bar on the softer setting and the rear set to the stiffer setting. It kicked ass this year in autocross, 'stf' class.

Bottom line is there's much more front end grip, but the car has none of the fwd twitchyness at and over the limits.