Do the Targa Turbo and Fox suspension and be done with it. Just don't tell your dad, let him find out the hard way 
Do the Targa Turbo and Fox suspension and be done with it. Just don't tell your dad, let him find out the hard way
It was my understanding that 949 didn't bring their K car to MRLS due to an engine issue.
RossD wrote: Keith, any updates on the 2.0/2.3 Ecoboost crate engine in a NC? Did FM work out anything regarding the NC's ECU/CANbus/Ford Controls Pack?
No updates at this time.
Having driven both LSx, Ford and Targa Package Miata's rather extensively, the LSx is the performance king and punches well above its weight in the dollar per speed category. The Ford is a cruder swap, its often previous experience with the Fords that really impresses people with a good LSx conversion. The Targa setup is a very effective all-around car with an engine that is good but uninspiring - that's just the nature of the MZR most of the time. It does not encourage bad behavior but is surprisingly quick and very comfortable.
I do put an emphasis on engine character over pure effectiveness at times.
we do lots of autocross, but I hate the scca and the brain dead classing rules so much I don't really care about being competitive, most of these should be one of the quickest cars at our local autocross.
KMiata wrote: Also for 2017, we will be competing in World Racing League with a new enduro car that's in the works right now. Based on our experience, we expect to see 8 hour races, back to back, without any drivetrain related issues. The goal is to continue to show that the K swap is a fantastic option for those wanting anywhere from 220whp to 300+whp from an N/A 4 cylinder.
And you'll have an extremely fun tax write off. :) Where I live it's possible to receive additional tax grants for R&D work.
What to do for more power in your Miata? How much money do you have?
I've driven every flavor of miata, no contest for me, ls swap IS the answer for me for the answer. An ls miata just feels well rounded to me, it's faster, it's a bettertrack car (imho), it's a better gt car, its a better fast road car, it just feels like more of an event.
If power is your goal, LS swap is the Answer...
I'm one of those folks that really likes the LFX swap... in theory...
Light weight, HP numbers hit the sweet spot for me (~300) with a stock engine, and they sound fantastic. But as Keith noted, it's not really sorted yet, and costs not a lot less than an LS swap. I'm not going to dive in until there are some LFX swaps running around tracks and showing reliability.
In your place, I would start with either an NB2 and follow 949s Supermiata pattern; or an NC with a 2.5 swap and good suspension. Either should have no problem chasing an S2K around, and you have lots of options for power upgrades in the future, be they non-native swap, or forced induction.
Keith Tanner wrote: There's also Honda K, Honda J and Ecotec. They all keep the stock trans, so if you're worried about it with the turbo BP then you should still be worried about it. None of them are what I'd consider to be fully sorted yet, and there have been an number of well-prepped K track builds that have had engine failures. Not enough for me to determine why, but enough that I'm starting to think it's not coincidence. 949 Racing and the One Lap Miata are the two big examples. Still, they all offer interesting options for the problem solver and DIY builder. Personally, I don't like the feel of the Ecotec engine (in my limited experience with one) so I find the Honda options preferable.
Ecotec swap is well sorted. Not sure why you would say that, or that you don't like the feel of an Eco. My guess is - and it's only a guess, that you've never driven a tuned 2.4 Eco in a Miata. I've driven them back to back. If I recall, and I may be wrong again, it's by far the least expensive option that still makes excellent power with reliability.
For that kind of money why not a corvette?
By well sorted, I mean have all the potential problems been figured out? Cruise, AC, PS, sways, EGR, full clearance for everything, no CELs, sufficient ground clearance, bolt in solutions for cooling, exhaust, etc. I really don't know for sure as I haven't seen one, but usually it takes a few iterations to get it dialed. For example, the V8R swaps aren't fully sorted unless you go elsewhere either. It should look and act factory.
I've driven a 220 hp rwhp Ecotec (claimed at 300) in another vehicle. I found it fairly coarse and with a rough exhaust note. I know it's supposedly quite effective at producing dyno numbers, but I didn't care for the character of it.
I have a Cobalt SS turbo. The Ecotec makes great power, but it's not really a fun engine. Sounds like crap and redlines at 6300. For a fun engine I'd rather be howling at 7500rpm or at least making good noises like my old 240Z or 1972 911.
Keith Tanner wrote: By well sorted, I mean have all the potential problems been figured out? Cruise, AC, PS, sways, EGR, full clearance for everything, no CELs, sufficient ground clearance, bolt in solutions for cooling, exhaust, etc. It should look and act factory.
Yes and yes
Then you've done a hell of a job so quickly. I look forward to seeing a fully sorted one someday.
It's not me, it's a few of my friends. Not so quick though, they've been working on it for some time, and I think they've been racing one for at least the last two seasons - no issues.
I need to drive a corvette again, but the last time I did it just felt so big and heavy compared to my Miata that I didn't love it.
icaneat50eggs wrote: I need to drive a corvette again, but the last time I did it just felt so big and heavy compared to my Miata that I didn't love it.
FWIW I decided to go for a C4 Vette as to me it has similar characteristics and dynamics to a Miata, albeit scaled up a bit and with more power, for a similar price vs. condition as compared to a Miata. It also has the 80's GM cheapness in the interior (except the seats, they're way better than Miata seats) but for the price you get a nice suspension, comparable chassis, a wide choice of tires/sizes, and the ability to add power about as cheaply as possible.
For those looking at turbos or swaps that keep the Miata transmission, how much power and torque can you put through it and not have it self destruct?
Assume beating the heck out of it on the track.
At the last autocross of our season I got a co-drive in a friends' 2003 ZO6. Compared and contrasted to my CSPish '97 Miata: It didn't change direction as well, which given it's 900 lb weight penalty isn't terribly surprising but it's ability to accelerate with that LS3 was FUUUNN! On a track and not an autocross course the vette would positively rail my Miata or an S2000.
He was looking to sell it btw, $16,000 IIRC
Consumables. The cost of consumables is depressing in a Corvette.
I don't understand the logic of putting a Honda engine into a Miata in order to beat a Honda, especially given that your budget can buy one and a half S2000s.
Buy a S2000 and beat him with driving skill. That will burn your Dad more than out spending him or building a faster car. It should be more satisfying for you as well.
The S2000 will always be heavier than the swapped Miata, so there's that. But if you're going to swap, you should be operating on a different level than the S2000 when you're done. Otherwise a straight turbo install will get the job done. Doesn't take much turbo to get a Miata to S2000 levels.
In reply to Keith Tanner:
Nope, the car was there in 2016. In 2015 they just hadn't completed the car yet. Here's the K swapped fleet from MRLS, with all four cars giving ride alongs all weekend.
In reply to Snrub:
Yeah, WRL is going to be a blast. The goal is to at least hit Road America and Mid Ohio this year, if not more.
KyAllroad wrote: At the last autocross of our season I got a co-drive in a friends' 2003 ZO6. Compared and contrasted to my CSPish '97 Miata: It didn't change direction as well, which given it's 900 lb weight penalty isn't terribly surprising but it's ability to accelerate with that LS3 was FUUUNN! On a track and not an autocross course the vette would positively rail my Miata or an S2000. He was looking to sell it btw, $16,000 IIRC Consumables. The cost of consumables is depressing in a Corvette.
What brake setup did he run in the Z06? On the C5 Z06 I'm prepping I put Wilwood 6-piston calipers on larger 14" C6 Z06 rotors that are $50 each at Rockauto. Pad costs are similar to OEM C5 calipers. Hopefully this reduces brake swaps and cost.
In any case I can buy a lot of tires/rotors/pads for the price difference between $15K Z06 and a FM V8 swap (or year of my life performing the swap myself).
I agree about the tossability and interior vs Miata... but this is a track car...
In reply to KyAllroad:
LS6
In reply to jv8: I honestly don't know. It struck me that every consumable on the car was roughly double that of mine and he went through them nearly twice as fast.
It was enough that he was shopping NB Miatas to autocross instead of his purple ZO6.
This has given me a lot to think about. I clarified my criteria a little in my mind.
BARE minimum is to get get something as fast as my dad's s2000.
The stretch goal would be to get something that impresses my brother. Now this is a lofty goal. He spent the last 5 years working on the really high end exotic/custom cars and has driven hundreds of cars that will cost 10 times what I will put in mine. He thinks I'm an automotive idiot (well, not an idiot, but I freely admit I don't have anywhere near his mechanical ability). Now he runs a shop for Tesla. So I won't impress him with anything in the 0-60 department! (as an aside, those things are mind blowingly fast for a two and a half ton vehicle.) So, there will always be something he has driven that is faster at any automotive event than I can buy, but I'm shooting for grudging admiration that I can do it at a fraction of the cost.
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