Need some first-hand info..

Summary: Daughter's fiance (mid-20s) 90s Accord is totaled. He's looking at a 2005 Passat (B5?). They want me to go look at the thing this weekend. Nothing about what engine/transmission, but I'm suspecting 1.8t and automatic.

My VW knowledge stops at the year 1992 (and from what I've heard here & elsewhere, for good reason. I've already informed my daughter about that..). Please give me some specifics to look for?

Avoid the longitudinal 1.8T. They sludge like crazy. Even the transverse 1.8T's like to turn oil into grease, but are a great motor if you feed them something like Mobil1 every 5K.

tpwalsh wrote: Avoid the longitudinal 1.8T. They sludge like crazy.

I have never seen this happen in person. Just on the Internet.

I've done more oil pump pick-ups on 1.8Ts than I can count. Sludging is definitely an issue.

Valve cover gaskets and cam tensioner seals last about 15K miles.

The plastic/rubber PCV systems constantly rot away and leak.

Coil packs are on thier 16th or 18th update (keep a spare set available)

CV boots also have a high failure rate

Front/upper control arm bushings also crack and fail constantly

Knurled wrote:

tpwalsh wrote: Avoid the longitudinal 1.8T. They sludge like crazy.

I have never seen this happen in person. Just on the Internet.

Agreed. VAG turbo engines are very picky about oil. Generic Mobil 1 is NOT an approved oil. Mobil 1 European Formula 0w-40, Castrol Syntec 5w-40 as well as a few other less common Euro brands. The problem is most people who buy VW's get weak-kneed when they see the cost of the right oil and figure, "eh... it can't be that important..." Then poo-poo all over the internet when they eff up their engine...

I've only used VAG-rated oil in my TDI since it was new. When I pulled the cam cover a couple of years ago for the 200K TB change, the cam and followers still looked new. It'll be interesting to see how they look at 300K in a few months (passed 289K this morning) when I do TB #3.

If there is anything useful to be had from this discussion, it's don't buy a turbo VAG car without a complete service history.

I had two B5 A4s, the fwd models have problems with control arms and suspension bits up front. There was a recall for only part (cant quite remember which exactly) of the problem. Other than that I really enjoyed them, great cars, solid construction. I had a '96 2.8 AWD and a '98 1.8T fwd.

If its a nice clean car, and the price is right I would not hesitate to own one.

Ugh, my Dad has a 98 A4 Quattro Wagon, 2.8, auto, etc.

Its been a huge PITA so far. I think he's managed to drive it maybe 2 or 3 years out of the 5 he's had it.

Currently, it has a bad solder joint somewhere in the ABS module that causes it to turn off the ABS when it is warm.

There is an issue with the Oxygen Injection solution and while he's repaired the vacuum and PCV system, replaced both EGR valves, the problem still prevails and flags a CEL, which prevents the car from passing local emissions. The resolution looks to be pulling the heads and having them cleaned and rebuilt to remove the carbon in the passages.

On top of this, the transmission shifts way too hard from first to second, so who knows how much longer that $3000 POS will last.

The radio is an odd-sized, code locked POS, the LCD display in the dash for the vehicle functions has been sun blasted and no longer works (common issue, so good luck finding a working one)

He can't wait to be rid of it and buy a Miata, he's tired of working on his DD's and just wants to play with some fun stuff once he retires. He's actually looking forward to trading it in so his Wife can get a new car and he can take her 95 Corolla until he finds his Miata.

My suggestion? KIWF. Buy something more reliable and less complicated like an old Mig fighter or a Unimog. I think NASA had some deals going on some space shuttles....

Seriously, look at a Subaru or Volvo wagon or something imported from Asia. Do not go with a Germanic devil vehicle unless you're a sadistic basterd....

In reply to Ian F:

To be honest I hadn't looked at what's approved and what's not in 6 years. When my 05 GTi was brand new I went down the list, found M1 0-40 was on the list and have stuck with it ever since. I had the pan pulled at 150K at a local VW specialists shop just to check and it was "the cleanest 1.8T we have ever seen"

Definitely get records if you're still looking at it. I don't think I'll ever buy a used turbo motor for just this reason

turboswede wrote: Buy something more reliable and less complicated like an old Mig fighter or a Unimog. I think NASA had some deals going on some space shuttles....

Quote of the month!!!

Using the right oil is a very important topic. VW/Audi have a specific spec for each car, and going to walmart for oil won't work. I use Autohausaz.com for my oil, Total Quartz 9000... isn't worth trying to save $5-10.

m4ff3w wrote:

The Check Engine Light lets you know that everything is operating as usual.

RossD wrote:

m4ff3w wrote:

The Check Engine Light lets you know that everything is operating as usual.

No, that's part of the ambiance lighting group. It give you a nice orange glow at night.

Cone Junky - We're seriously considering a B6 or NMS Passat for our next family vehicle. What engine would you recommend? Is there anything about these platforms that would keep you from owning one?

A 2005 would be a B5.5 they had an update in 2001.5.

B5.5's are supposed to be better than the early cars.

I had a 98 Passat 1.8T with a 5spd. I NEVER had a check engine light in 6 years and over 60k miles of use. Front end was rebuilt twice by me. Parts were over $600 each time.

The cars drive wonderfully - but they are pricey to take care of. I always used whatever synth oil I could get on sale and mine did not sludge.

I personally would not recommend a Passat for a young person unless its cheap enough to be considered disposable.

Cue John Brown in 1, 2, 3, . . .

In reply to nderwater:

I can't RECOMMEND any VW engine, I just make too much money off all of them. But I would say the V6s take less maintenance. Still pretty bad with the valve cover leaks, but the PCV is simple and relatively trouble free. No sludging issues. Catalytic converters are pricey and common failures just past the emissions warranty (go figure).

The 2.0T is a vast improvement over the 1.8T, but share a lot of the same issues. Coil packs still fail, the redesigned PCV also fails. They also have a bad habit of flattening cams at the (high pressure) fuel pump journal and/or the lifter for the fuel pump shatters. Have had a few (low pressure) fuel pumps crap out at unusually low miles too. The torque curve of that little motor is pretty impressive.

I'm biased, of course, because I see all of the broken ones. I have plenty of customers who don't need much work on theirs, but I also have some customers with service records thicker than War and Peace. It's too bad since like BMW, they are a real driver's car.

We put 100k trouble free miles on our B5.5 1.8T Auto Passat. Course that was with me doing 5000 mile oil changes with Mobil 1 0w40 and the big OEM filters.

Car ran like a top, never let us down. I've had similar results with A4/S4's, you just need to find one that's been taken care of, just like any other european car.

Thanks, everyone. No news yet, he's supposed to be sending me the links & stuff about the car sometime this evening. Supposed to look at it Saturday.

I actually think I'll send him the link to this thread.
Aside to m4ff3w (re--photo): Yeah, I was kinda thinking that the moment I heard "2005".

IIRC, the seller's asking around $4K (to me, another indication of deferred maintenance). If I can point out enough stuff wrong with it, would it be worth trying to talk him down to $2K (and use the other 2K to freshen it up)?

EDIT: Whoa, $5K..but the description sounds like the car's been maintained. And it's the 6 (is that still the VR6?), not the turbo. Here `tiz..

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=30127&endYear=2013&sortBy=mileageASC&showcaseOwnerId=43952313&startYear=1981&makeCode1=VOLKS&bodyStyles=SEDAN&sellerType=p&searchRadius=25&listingId=325255808&Log=0

Javelin wrote:

turboswede wrote: Buy something more reliable and less complicated like an old Mig fighter or a Unimog. I think NASA had some deals going on some space shuttles....

Quote of the month!!!

Hey, my unimog never needed anything. Luckily.

In reply to chandlerGTi:

Saw your score on the Mk.1 GTI, dude. I am officially jealous.

friedgreencorrado wrote: In reply to chandlerGTi: Saw your score on the Mk.1 GTI, dude. I am officially jealous.

Thanks! I wish it was a GTI but it is a 78, someone just took some artistic license.

Ian F wrote: Agreed. VAG turbo engines are very picky about oil. Generic Mobil 1 is NOT an approved oil. Mobil 1 European Formula 0w-40, Castrol Syntec 5w-40 as well as a few other less common Euro brands. The problem is most people who buy VW's get weak-kneed when they see the cost of the right oil and figure, "eh... it can't be that important..." Then poo-poo all over the internet when they eff up their engine...

Probably. The only ones I see are serviced by us, and we're anal-retentive about using oil that meets manufacturer specs. VW has three or four different specs called out. I forgot what we used before we switched all of our oil to Agip, but if you search online for 505.1 oil (or whatever the spec is for that car) you'll find a huge list of acceptable oils.

I've only ever seen upper control arm bushings go bad once, and those were on a 200k+ mile A8. On the other hand, we're not in a desert climate, so we rarely see bushings fail in anything at all.

Interestingly enough, the oil change interval is something like 3750 miles even with the spec oil which is synthetic. You need to look at the "Severe Service" table. There's nowhere in the US that does not qualify for severe service.

turboswede wrote: Ugh, my Dad has a 98 A4 Quattro Wagon, 2.8, auto, etc. Its been a huge PITA so far. I think he's managed to drive it maybe 2 or 3 years out of the 5 he's had it. Currently, it has a bad solder joint somewhere in the ABS module that causes it to turn off the ABS when it is warm.

So replace the module.

There is an issue with the Oxygen Injection solution and while he's repaired the vacuum and PCV system, replaced both EGR valves, the problem still prevails and flags a CEL, which prevents the car from passing local emissions. The resolution looks to be pulling the heads and having them cleaned and rebuilt to remove the carbon in the passages.

VW gasoline engines don't have EGR valves. Are you thinking of the air injection switching valves?

Those only carbon up if you drive for a long time with bad switching valves, which are also check valves. Bad switching valves are also 90% of the reason for the plastic corrugated hoses to crack (not counting hamfisted attempts to remove them) because a stuck checkvalve allows exhaust gases into the hose. It's also what kills air pumps.

Amazing how expensive it can get if you ignore the check engine light...

The radio is an odd-sized, code locked POS,

Call a dealership. "I lost my radio code, and it's locked, can you help?" We've run into this, it's a 5 minute problem.

Seriously, look at a Subaru or Volvo wagon or something imported from Asia. Do not go with a Germanic devil vehicle unless you're a sadistic basterd....

I'd rate modern Volvos as about three rings deeper into Hell than Audi is. You'll wish for Audi problems if you have a Volvo.

But I do like the stereotype that Audis are crap. Have you SEEN how cheap 6sp Allroads are? I mean, damn. It's like getting an S6 with utility.

You guys talking about working on lots of VWs in your shops is that the TDI's as well?

I always just buy the oil change kits from TDIparts.com which is VAG approved stuff I think

2002 seems like the reliability sweet spot on truedelta

We have a couple regular TDis, but mainly we get referrals from other shops who refuse to work on VWs, or who refuse to work on diesels, or both. They're generally troublefree, boring cars.

Sure, you sometimes have to replace the glow plugs, or rod-out the intake manifold, or replace the turbo because the VNT bits have siezed (also get the oil feed line, which you'll have to cut to remove the turbo), but any mechanical device will have failures every now and then.

The VW 3-liter V6, on the other hand, IS a vile hellswork that is made out of fail and spite. It's also the only all-aluminum engine in that family, just to be enticing. (The cam sprockets can fall apart. This causes lots of damage, oddly enough the valves are the cheapest thing that gets wrecked. Only DOHC VWAG engine that has two cam sprickets per bank.

But if you have a VW, you can get a better-than-OEM scantool for a pittance.