They say two heads are better than one. Honda and GM are hoping that applies to electric cars.
Building on an already amicable relationship, Honda and GM have agreed to collaborate on the next generation of Honda electric vehicles. From the looks of it, Honda will design the cars, then GM will build them and supply the electric motors.
Interestingly enough, Honda …
454-powered CRX from the factory?
David S. Wallens said:454-powered CRX from the factory?
I'm going to wager more like a Olds diesel powered Passport...
I'll wait for the Type R model.
Finally seeing the other side of the coin where Honda put their engines in Saturn models.
I'm happy to see that GM seems to have rediscovered its mid-century naming mojo: Ultium batteries!
In reply to Keith Tanner :
I hope they have a "gage" to show how much ultia is left in the ultium battery.
Service department at my local GM dealer just told me they don't see any future for electrics so they don't see a need to learn to work on them. Maybe Honda will see it differently?
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
You should've told them that they are right, because Lord knows, those newfangled computers and that darn Internet never went anywhere. Technology, get off my lawn!
mazdeuce - Seth said:Service department at my local GM dealer just told me they don't see any future for electrics so they don't see a need to learn to work on them. Maybe Honda will see it differently?
I assume that local GM dealer doesn't sell a lot of Bolts. They're sure not interested in supporting them if so!
mazdeuce - Seth said:Service department at my local GM dealer just told me they don't see any future for electrics so they don't see a need to learn to work on them. Maybe Honda will see it differently?
As there is almost no service on EV, that is true in a way.
People are salty enough about the Toyota BMW Zupra collab. Now the Honda guys gonna start whining
I think that's only because the Supra is a flagship car. It's not like there haven't been Honda collaborations before.
ZOO (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to Keith Tanner :
I hope they have a "gage" to show how much ultia is left in the ultium battery.
Oh no, not the dreaded Green Eye
mazdeuce - Seth said:Service department at my local GM dealer just told me they don't see any future for electrics so they don't see a need to learn to work on them. Maybe Honda will see it differently?
That's certainly been my experience. Couldn't get GM to service my Volt at all even though it was under warranty. Traded it for a Honda Clarity and haven't looked back. Honda's service has been impeccable so far.
Interesting move by Honda.
I read a while back that their battery technology was behind the curve, despite being showcased in the NSX. Partnering is definitely one way to sole the problem-the company that Sochiro originally founded to produce piston rings has to make the jump to battery power somehow.
Maybe it's not surprising. Batteies themselves may turn out to be more about scale than innovation or design. If it's destined to be a commodity then this sourcing strategy makes sense.
The mid-engined vette is expected to decimate the hybrid NSX. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em I guess.
Imagine all that Honda torque, available at idle.
Keith Tanner said:I think that's only because the Supra is a flagship car. It's not like there haven't been Honda collaborations before.
Exactly. Some of them with GM too. Remember the first-gen Saturn Vue, the brand's best-seller? The 6 cylinder models had a Honda J35 under the hood.
Chances are this is a short-term collaboration and a low-risk hedge for Honda. They have relationships with the biggest battery makers in the world and know full well that the current generation of battery tech isn't good enough to make a profitable BEV for the everyday consumer. This will let them add a few battery powered EVs to their fleet without having to spend a lot of money on tech that might go obsolete in 10 years.
It's actually a much riskier proposition for GM, as they are the ones building the expensive batteries and motors. If they don't work as well as they hope, there's nothing stopping Honda from taking the same chassis and dropping in another manufacturer's battery pack and motor package at little to no cost.
In reply to Colin Wood :
GM has historic strength in Electric vehicles. They were working on them early on. More recent was EV1 then Volt and Bolt.
Their patent on square wire which is a real advance. Gets them a step ahead of Tesla. ( at least in motors ).
What GM lacks is the ability to make a profit in small cars. Something Honda excels in.
Honda is too small to survive on its own. Consolidation is coming. Honda is progressive enough to see that. GM is very smart about acquisition. They looked at Jaguar and passed, Ford Jumped and lost a fortune trying to make it work. Leaving Tatra to pick up the pieces Tatra is next to be absorbed
frenchyd said:In reply to Colin Wood :
GM has historic strength in Electric vehicles. They were working on them early on. More recent was EV1 then Volt and Bolt.
Their patent on square wire which is a real advance. Gets them a step ahead of Tesla. ( at least in motors ).
What GM lacks is the ability to make a profit in small cars. Something Honda excels in.
Honda is too small to survive on its own. Consolidation is coming. Honda is progressive enough to see that. GM is very smart about acquisition. They looked at Jaguar and passed, Ford Jumped and lost a fortune trying to make it work. Leaving Tatra to pick up the pieces Tatra is next to be absorbed
Honda has a market cap twice that of Ford. Not so small!
But yes, GM has some awesome EV tech. They just have put it in a super dorkmobile so far! Honda will put a fart can on it and sell tons.
In reply to frenchyd :
2018 revenue for GM was 147B USD, Honda had 138B USD. Earnings for both companies were roughly 10B.
Nicole Suddard said:mazdeuce - Seth said:Service department at my local GM dealer just told me they don't see any future for electrics so they don't see a need to learn to work on them. Maybe Honda will see it differently?
That's certainly been my experience. Couldn't get GM to service my Volt at all even though it was under warranty. Traded it for a Honda Clarity and haven't looked back. Honda's service has been impeccable so far.
I suspect this has more to do with individual dealers than GM vs Honda. Our local GM dealer was extremely helpful the one time we needed them for the Volt, and they always have a few Bolts in stock. The Honda dealer seems to have zero interest in the Clarity or the Insight.
Turboeric said:Nicole Suddard said:mazdeuce - Seth said:Service department at my local GM dealer just told me they don't see any future for electrics so they don't see a need to learn to work on them. Maybe Honda will see it differently?
That's certainly been my experience. Couldn't get GM to service my Volt at all even though it was under warranty. Traded it for a Honda Clarity and haven't looked back. Honda's service has been impeccable so far.
I suspect this has more to do with individual dealers than GM vs Honda. Our local GM dealer was extremely helpful the one time we needed them for the Volt, and they always have a few Bolts in stock. The Honda dealer seems to have zero interest in the Clarity or the Insight.
On the contrary, the GM dealers (those that knew anything about the EVs, at least - local dealership was clueless) were helpful and even gave us the transcripts of their communications with GM. Dealer wanted to make the repairs, GM refused. Dealer fought them on it, GM still told them to pound sand. That's when I gave up on owning the Volt.
Local Honda dealer's sales staff didn't know what a Clarity was when I showed up and asked about buying one, but when I showed up to the service center for maintenance after buying one at an out-of-town dealership, they knew exactly what to do with it. That being said, who knows if they'll know what to do if anything ever actually breaks on it.
In reply to Nicole Suddard :
That's unfortunate, as I've found the Volt to be without question the best commuter appliance I've ever owned. I haven't had to deal with GM at all (which is part of why I like it so much), and the only problem we've had was the 12V battery going intermittently flakey, which was correctly diagnosed and cured by replacing the 7 year old 12V battery. How do you find the eCVT on the Clarity? Any CVTs I've ever experienced would have driven me bonkers and put me off owning any car cursed with one.
Dave M (Forum Supporter) said:frenchyd said:In reply to Colin Wood :
GM has historic strength in Electric vehicles. They were working on them early on. More recent was EV1 then Volt and Bolt.
Their patent on square wire which is a real advance. Gets them a step ahead of Tesla. ( at least in motors ).
What GM lacks is the ability to make a profit in small cars. Something Honda excels in.
Honda is too small to survive on its own. Consolidation is coming. Honda is progressive enough to see that. GM is very smart about acquisition. They looked at Jaguar and passed, Ford Jumped and lost a fortune trying to make it work. Leaving Tatra to pick up the pieces Tatra is next to be absorbed
Honda has a market cap twice that of Ford. Not so small!
But yes, GM has some awesome EV tech. They just have put it in a super dorkmobile so far! Honda will put a fart can on it and sell tons.
Thank you for that big picture snap shot. I hadn't checked lately and went by past ( pre bankruptcy ) assumptions. I forgot how lousy GM was at selling cars at a profit and then when you add the fact that they aren't number one in truck sales either there is a grim future indeed.
Of course both GM and Ford lag compared to Tesla. So it's not just about putting out vehicles it's where the market believes the best return on their investments will be.
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