kazoospec wrote: EDIT: Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju37Kt94dkE&feature=youtu.be Nothing in the "official" description of the video says its an ST, but there was some discussion on a local Autox forum by someone who claimed to have seen it happen and said it was an ST, for what that's worth.
Yeah that video is an ST. I know the guy who used to run that car. He traded it in soon after that happened.
Front wheel lift...
Adrian_Thompson wrote:wbjones wrote:But the stupid thing is you could run a 100% stock, band from stock class car is street touring, street prepared. Prepared, mod, street mod etc and by changing the letters on the door this stock unsafe car magically becomes safe.captdownshift wrote: Can't autocross, but is fine for Spec B and IT class racing.whole bunch of suspension and tires as compared to OEM
No you can't willfully up yourself into a higher class anymore. I believe I read that recently because people were taking their street class civics and beating up on evo's or bmws and made some people mad ;p
As a solo safety steward I watch all the cars closely at our events and while lots it not most of the FWD cars will three wheel with complete regularity, it's the Fiesta STs that look the least stable and thus the scariest to me as the responsible party overseeing Sunday parking lot shenanigans.
On 200 TW tires I don't think they are going to roll (not quite) but I can see if someone bolted a set of Hoosiers on one it would be downright dangerous.
And for comparison we have an Abarth as well. It appears MUCH more planted that the ST.
Jaynen wrote: No you can't willfully up yourself into a higher class anymore. I believe I read that recently because people were taking their street class civics and beating up on evo's or bmws and made some people mad ;p
How can you legislate against up classing. Tell me how your stock class Civic fails to meet the rules for prepared, street prepared, Street touring, Street mod etc? I don't recall in any of those classes a minimum level of prep being called out.
Adrian_Thompson wrote:Jaynen wrote: No you can't willfully up yourself into a higher class anymore. I believe I read that recently because people were taking their street class civics and beating up on evo's or bmws and made some people mad ;pHow can you legislate against up classing. Tell me how your stock class Civic fails to meet the rules for prepared, street prepared, Street touring, Street mod etc? I don't recall in any of those classes a minimum level of prep being called out.
I think he means that you can't go from HS to GS or the like. You need to run in the class that your car is actually classed in. You can still bump to STF or whatever mod class that car would be legal for.
Don't people up class cars at times when their normal A-X car is out of commission but they still want to run in class to get points? I've done it locally.
The regular Fiesta is taller than it is wide by 0.4 inches.
The Fiesta St is wider than it is tall by 0.5 inches. Both cars are very close to 1:1.
By comparison, the Mazda 2 is exactly as wide as it is tall. The Mazda2 is exactly as tall as the regular Fiesta but its front track is half an inch wider.
The 2015 Yaris is taller than it is wide by 0.9 inches. I am surprised it hasn't been excluded.
The 2015 Fit is 1.7 inches taller than it is wide!
The Chevy Sonic is taller than it is wide by 0.3 inches
I am referring to maximum track width vs advertised height, the same way the SCCA rulebook defines it.
I read somewhere that SCCA also has a reg. about center of gravity vs. track width.
According to that, the Fiesta would have to have a CG of greater than 28".
Now we need to get Car and Driver to measure the CG of the Fiesta.
The Focus ST ha a CG of 22"
Adrian_Thompson wrote:wbjones wrote:But the stupid thing is you could run a 100% stock, band from stock class car is street touring, street prepared. Prepared, mod, street mod etc and by changing the letters on the door this stock unsafe car magically becomes safe.captdownshift wrote: Can't autocross, but is fine for Spec B and IT class racing.whole bunch of suspension and tires as compared to OEM
solo chair can exclude anyone, any vehicle he/she wants to …. and they will .. locally we went through this a couple of seasons ago …
mazdeuce wrote: The Fiesta fails the 'taller than wide' ratio as does the regular 500. In the past one could submit the government rollover numbers (which also took into account CG) but they stopped producing those numbers so if a model didn't get one, it never will. I believe the 2 received one and that's part of why it gets to play. Is this right? I don't know. The SCCA has to draw a line somewhere, and this is the one they chose.
correct
JMcD wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote: But the stupid thing is you could run a 100% stock, band from stock class car is street touring, street prepared. Prepared, mod, street mod etc and by changing the letters on the door this stock unsafe car magically becomes safe.You could try that, but someone in tech, registration, or another event official should pick up on that. Section 3.1 of the SCCA solo rules applies to all cars. They specifically call out the non-ST Fiesta in Appendix A because it is a relatively common car that has the potential to roll even in street class preparation form. 3.1 still applies, regardless of what class you run a car in. If folks want to run a non-ST Fiesta at SCCA events - Great! - but they need to figure out a way to meet the guidelines in 3.1. Lower the car, make the track width sufficiently wide, or both. It's really in everyone's best interested. SCCA is not only looking out for the safety of its participants, but also the future of the sport. Rollovers are bad for insurance costs, site retention, and site acquisition.
plus things like a roll over tend to cost regions their sites … not good … being that selfish that you could ruin it for everyone … not good
kanaric wrote:Feedyurhed wrote:Really? Crazy. Makes me think they should just have "warnings" for these cars and make people who run them sign a waiver. This kind of vehicle is only growing in popularity, US law is creating cars like the Fiesta, and sport CUVs are definitely a thing now. Sounds like at least some kind of rule revision is in order.kanaric wrote: Juke is banned as well, which is disappointing because the Nismo R one would be interesting to run. I'm wondering if these cars are allowed if you lower them?Very disappointing. Also the MINI Countryman? Guess I can autocross my Kia Soul but not a Juke or Countryman. That would be a bummer if they were your only ride.
Vigo wrote: I understand it's a huge hassle to have a car roll over on your course, but i dont actually think tiny cars rolling over is any more dangerous for anyone (even the drivers) than what corner workers are subjected to on a nearly constant basis.
see my post above … loss of site = not good
ProDarwin wrote:novaderrik wrote: and if these things are too dangerous for closed course parking lot orange cone avoidance events, then why in the hell are the allowed to be driven by the general public on the roads??I'm confused. Do you think its an irrational safety measure, or do you think all cars on public roads should not be able to roll from grip alone?
not many people drive to the extreme on public streets that we do at an autocross
Jaynen wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote:No you can't willfully up yourself into a higher class anymore. I believe I read that recently because people were taking their street class civics and beating up on evo's or bmws and made some people mad ;pwbjones wrote:But the stupid thing is you could run a 100% stock, band from stock class car is street touring, street prepared. Prepared, mod, street mod etc and by changing the letters on the door this stock unsafe car magically becomes safe.captdownshift wrote: Can't autocross, but is fine for Spec B and IT class racing.whole bunch of suspension and tires as compared to OEM
Adrian_Thompson wrote:Jaynen wrote: No you can't willfully up yourself into a higher class anymore. I believe I read that recently because people were taking their street class civics and beating up on evo's or bmws and made some people mad ;pHow can you legislate against up classing. Tell me how your stock class Civic fails to meet the rules for prepared, street prepared, Street touring, Street mod etc? I don't recall in any of those classes a minimum level of prep being called out.
if you can find the "upped" class that the Street class car would run if modified, then yes you can …
what you're referring to is the STC guys that jumped to STX and won at the nationals … PO'd the boost buggies to no end …the ability to do that went away when Back when ST* went from formula-based classing to subjective-based classing
The Fiesta has been out for what, 4 or 5 years now. Up until this year Stock Class (HS) ran on "sticky" Hoosier et al tires. This year we now have the new "Street" class that runs on 200TW "street" tires. Wouldn't the rollover risk be diminished under the new rules? This is not a "new" car.
drdisque wrote: The regular Fiesta is taller than it is wide by 0.4 inches. The Fiesta St is wider than it is tall by 0.5 inches. Both cars are very close to 1:1. By comparison, the Mazda 2 is exactly as wide as it is tall. The Mazda2 is exactly as tall as the regular Fiesta but its front track is half an inch wider. The 2015 Yaris is taller than it is wide by 0.9 inches. I am surprised it hasn't been excluded. The 2015 Fit is 1.7 inches taller than it is wide! The Chevy Sonic is taller than it is wide by 0.3 inches I am referring to maximum track width vs advertised height, the same way the SCCA rulebook defines it.
mazdeuce wrote: The Fiesta fails the 'taller than wide' ratio as does the regular 500. In the past one could submit the government rollover numbers (which also took into account CG) but they stopped producing those numbers so if a model didn't get one, it never will. I believe the 2 received one and that's part of why it gets to play. Is this right? I don't know. The SCCA has to draw a line somewhere, and this is the one they chose.
bolded portion … when the government tested for rollover a car could be legal (and then stay legal) even if it didn't pass the height to width rule
FSP_ZX2 wrote: The Fiesta has been out for what, 4 or 5 years now. Up until this year Stock Class (HS) ran on "sticky" Hoosier et al tires. This year we now have the new "Street" class that runs on 200TW "street" tires. Wouldn't the rollover risk be diminished under the new rules? This is not a "new" car.
keep in mind that the modern day ST tires are probably stickier than R-Comps were several yrs ago 
ProDarwin wrote:novaderrik wrote: and if these things are too dangerous for closed course parking lot orange cone avoidance events, then why in the hell are the allowed to be driven by the general public on the roads??I'm confused. Do you think its an irrational safety measure, or do you think all cars on public roads should not be able to roll from grip alone?
i'm saying that if average Joe not a car guy civilian can drive these things anywhere with full DOT and insurance company blessings, then why can't people drive them in a controlled environment? isn't that the point of racing: to drive your car harder than you can legally in your day to day commute?
asked and answered
The problem is that you 'get used to it' with a tall car. Tipping it over your first time isn't going to happen. You drive more, you get experience. The feelings that would have made you poop yourself at the beginning become normal. You push harder. Eventually with these cars driven properly, you're right on the very edge of tipping over and you don't really realize it because it feels normal. That's what's dangerous.
In reply to wbjones:
I was just providing context and facts to this discussion and pointing out that in terms of height to track width ratio, the fiesta is sort of middle of the road among popular subcompacts and the Mazda 2 is the "flatest"
wbjones wrote:FSP_ZX2 wrote: The Fiesta has been out for what, 4 or 5 years now. Up until this year Stock Class (HS) ran on "sticky" Hoosier et al tires. This year we now have the new "Street" class that runs on 200TW "street" tires. Wouldn't the rollover risk be diminished under the new rules? This is not a "new" car.keep in mind that the modern day ST tires are probably stickier than R-Comps were several yrs ago
Hoosier A6's are stickier than any "street" tire--and those have been out for several years.
novaderrik wrote:ProDarwin wrote:i'm saying that if average Joe not a car guy civilian can drive these things anywhere with full DOT and insurance company blessings, then why can't people drive them in a controlled environment?novaderrik wrote: and if these things are too dangerous for closed course parking lot orange cone avoidance events, then why in the hell are the allowed to be driven by the general public on the roads??I'm confused. Do you think its an irrational safety measure, or do you think all cars on public roads should not be able to roll from grip alone?
.... because there is a high rollover risk.
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