Novice with a WRX. (Rant)

Did you guys turn into old ladies overnight?

I'm sure the brakes and suspension on that car are good enough to handle another 20-50 hp. If I were you, I think I would mind my own business.

I'm not sure that putting a priority on driver training over horsepower is a ladies trait, but I also wouldn't crucify a novice for wanting more power. A WRX is a pretty easy car to drive fast, so adding XX more horsepower isn't likely to make it a road hazard.

Have him run an autocross (or an HPDE), then put an instructor in his seat, with him to the right. If he doesn't understand that a better driver just wrung out better times with the exact same car, he may very well be a hopeless case.

In that case, tell him you've got dibs on his driveline when he wads it up, and change the subject in the future.

My old 86 Camaro went from 140hp to probably around 350hp and we didn't wad it up into a ball or hit anything. We were 17 as well. Worked fine for us, and it was great fun on the dragstrip. Some people like HP. Nothing wrong with that.

alex wrote: Have him run an autocross (or an HPDE), then put an instructor in his seat, with him to the right. If he doesn't understand that a better driver just wrung out better times with the exact same car, he may very well be a hopeless case.

This argument makes no sense. The same will happen with more horsepower, with suspension work, etc. The better driver will always be faster. Let him have his fun.

Guess I shouldn't prep my S2K anymore because there is somebody somewhere capable of driving it faster than me.

My First car was a 1969 Dodge coronet with a 375 hp 440, air shocks pumped to 80 lbs, worn L60-15 bias ply tires and drum brakes.

At least the WRX has good brakes and suspension.

ProDarwin wrote:

alex wrote: Have him run an autocross (or an HPDE), then put an instructor in his seat, with him to the right. If he doesn't understand that a better driver just wrung out better times with the exact same car, he may very well be a hopeless case.

This argument makes no sense. The same will happen with more horsepower, with suspension work, etc. The better driver will always be faster. Let him have his fun. Guess I shouldn't prep my S2K anymore because there is somebody somewhere capable of driving it faster than me.

Are you refusing to see the point of being able to safely use what you have before you start spending money buying more?

Checkbooks and credit cards are easy to drive. Cars are a little bit harder and take seat time to learn. I'm not saying that you must hit an absolute unbreakable plateau before you're allowed to upgrade the car, but why wouldn't you want to start with the most effective improvement?

Duke wrote: but why *wouldn't* you want to start with the most effective improvement?

Maybe this guy has no intent of ever running a HPDE or a rally or whatever, maybe he just wants hp for whatever reason. Let the guy have his fun.

I say let him do what he wants but I would try to get him to run and autocross or HPDE with an instructor. What I don't understand if he was going to upgrade the WRX up to that horsepower why not just start with a STi?

tuna55 wrote: Maybe this guy has no intent of ever running a HPDE or a rally or whatever, maybe he just wants hp for whatever reason. Let the guy have his fun.

That's a great way to end up with a totaled WRX. Although it's not a certainty he will, we can only hope that in the likely event he does prang it, he doesn't take anybody else out too.

What does your friend want out of the car? I think some of us are too quick to assume b/c he bought a WRX his ultimate goal must be road racing, rally or at least the occasional autox. Truth is for most people, even most people who would call themselves gearheads/car guys, that simply isn't the case. A lot of people mod cars simply for the sake of saying they have a car that's modified, and HP is one of the few benchmarks most people understand. We have to realize we are, by far, the minority in the "car community". His approach may all change if you can get him out to an autocross. I was looking at turbo kits and a whole bunch of other worthless crap before I started autocrossing. I realized seat time, then tires were the only things that were really going to make me significantly faster and I stopped wasting time and money on parts that were only going to keep bumping me up classes. If I had discretionary funds right now, the outgoing check would be much more likely to say "Skip Barber" on it than "Turbonetics". Actually racing, no matter how amatuer it is, changed my whole way of thinking about cars. I chuckle at the "big HP" car guys now, knowing that in all likelihood my craptacular little Sentra will absolutely trash them in the kind of racing that matters to me. (A poorly driven GT3 is my favorite "victim") But that doesn't mean that their approach is wrong (or that I would even be able to read their license plate as they buried me in a stoplight/drag race), its just different than mine. Cliff Notes: You can TELL your friend HP mods are over-rated, but he's unlikely to believe you. If you let him "figure it out for himself", he's much more likely to buy it.

Duke wrote:

tuna55 wrote: Maybe this guy has no intent of ever running a HPDE or a rally or whatever, maybe he just wants hp for whatever reason. Let the guy have his fun.

That's a great way to end up with a totaled WRX. Although it's not a certainty he will, we can only hope that in the likely event he *does* prang it, he doesn't take anybody else out too.

Well we disagree I guess. As I said before, I have owned a car with more than double the original power with no modifications to suspension or brakes at all and I didn't die, crash, kill anyone or maim baby seals. I think he'll be fine.

If the guy is going to crash his WRX, he's going to do it whether he adds another 5% -15% power (really, that's all we're talking about), or not. But again, if he didn't ask for your blessing, I'm not sure why you think it's any of your business.

It's case by case, isn't it. Congrats to those of you sane enough to have started with 400hp when you were 17 and didn't kill yourselves or anybody else. I figure that's really not too much to expect. But the OP doesn't sound like he has a ton of faith in this particular guy's skill/judgment, and that's the concern. 265hp is a lot for the wrong person.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm just baffled that anybody who isn't rabid enough to want to autocross/HPDE/whatever would spend new-WRX money on a car unless they're so filthy rich it doesn't matter. At this point, I could make the payments on a WRX without resorting to an all-ramen diet, but I just can't justify it against everything I'd have to give up at this point. (This doesn't mean it's wrong or dumb to buy a WRX, I just don't understand it. Clearly a matter of personal priorities. Besides, somebody has to buy new cars so I can get used ones later...)

The OP's advice is sound, but it should be delivered a LOT more politely.

It's funny, when I first started doing track days 10 years ago, nearly everybody was friendly and helpful. Today the field seems pretty evenly split between the same friendly folks, and the "experts" who are just arrogant jerks.

There's a reason I don't attend as many autocross and HPDE events anymore, I'm just tired of the attitudes.

kazoospec wrote: What does your friend want out of the car? I think some of us are too quick to assume b/c he bought a WRX his ultimate goal must be road racing, rally or at least the occasional autox. Truth is for most people, even most people who would call themselves gearheads/car guys, that simply isn't the case. A lot of people mod cars simply for the sake of saying they have a car that's modified, and HP is one of the few benchmarks most people understand. We have to realize we are, by far, the minority in the "car community". His approach may all change if you can get him out to an autocross. I was looking at turbo kits and a whole bunch of other worthless crap before I started autocrossing. I realized seat time, then tires were the only things that were really going to make me significantly faster and I stopped wasting time and money on parts that were only going to keep bumping me up classes. If I had discretionary funds right now, the outgoing check would be much more likely to say "Skip Barber" on it than "Turbonetics". Actually racing, no matter how amatuer it is, hanged my whole way of thinking about cars. I chuckle at the "big HP" car guys now, knowing that in all likelihood my craptacular little Sentra will absolutely trash them in the kind of racing that matters to me. (A poorly driven GT3 is my favorite "victim") But that doesn't mean that their approach is wrong (or that I would even be able to read their license plate as they buried me in a stoplight/drag race), its just different than mine. Cliff Notes: You can TELL your friend HP mods are over-rated, but he's unlikely to believe you. If you let him "figure it out for himself", he's much more likely to buy it.

This is most likely truth. I know lots of people that own popular fast cars, some are even modded and they don't do anything with them other than drive them to work/school and cruise-ins. I've tried to get a couple of them bigmouths to an autocross to show them what their car can do but they aren't interested. I sit next to a guy at work that just got a brand new Camaro SS convertible w/6.? V8 and 6-speed manual. He said it has launch control but he has no plans to try it on his car. Go to a car show and see lots of hotrods & heavily modified cars that isn't even driven the speed limit. Superchargers make a good show car, you know. My daughters now ex-boyfriend does a great job building Honda show cars that look like race cars, including roll cages. But they never see track duty or autocrosses and only driven to & from Tuner shows where he wins awards with them sitting looking pretty.
I think about going with more power than my Miata has sometimes. Even have a start at it with my dd being an RX8 now but I still stick to autocrossing the Miata because it's more affordable. Tires mainly.

Funny no one has mentioned this, I take it that your friend doesn't like his warranty?

Subaru 5 spd's don't take to extra power and anything but careful shifting well. Subaru has a history of looking very carefully for mods on warranty work.

I took my 97 Outback to a rally-X last fall (CanadianTercel was there too) with its 170 hp, AWD and rally tires. 90% of the FWD cars were faster than me by 10s or more. Why - 90% of the FWD drivers have done mutiple seasons of the rally-X series and they can drive the piss out of their cars. Giving up 10s on a 2:05 course isn't a good feeling.

The nut behind the wheel (me) needs work.

Duke wrote: Are you refusing to see the point of being able to safely use what you have before you start spending money buying more? Checkbooks and credit cards are easy to drive. Cars are a little bit harder and take seat time to learn. I'm not saying that you must hit an absolute unbreakable plateau before you're allowed to upgrade the car, but why *wouldn't* you want to start with the most effective improvement?

See everyone else's posts. He doesn't care. He wants a modded car to have a modded car. Let him do it. 99% of modified vehicles on the road are not used in any sort of performance driving.

If he decides at some point to HPDE or Autox or Rallyx or TT or whatever the car afterward, its no big deal.

And to stir the pot... HPDEs are un-timed non-competition, so who cares how fast any car is?

NGTD wrote: Subaru 5 spd's don't take to extra power and anything but careful shifting well. Subaru has a history of looking very carefully for mods on warranty work.

This is a myth.

ProDarwin wrote:

NGTD wrote: Subaru 5 spd's don't take to extra power and anything but careful shifting well. Subaru has a history of looking very carefully for mods on warranty work.

This is a myth.

Agreed. My buddy has wailed away on his 5 speed WRX with 300whp for almost 2 years now and it hasn't blown up. And let me tell you, I cringe when he is driving like an idiot with the way he slams gears/shifts. It's horrendous. Or the launch control... don't even get me started on the launch control.

Edit- Of course, we had to rebuild our PGT WRX's 5 speed every 3 events with only 200whp... but the amount of missed shifts/gear grinding from that particular driver might have had something to do with it, as well as little mechanical sympathy.

So I read the first page and start to think I'm totally in the minority here, but the second page took a turn.

I didn't know so many of you guys were sally's! I agree with you guys, you really don't need that much power on track. A Miata is a great place to learn how to drive. It really teaches you how to maintain momentum through a corner and not just power out like a rocket once you finally get through that corner.

I love seeing the novices at the Auto-X. It starts with a full throttle, tire spinning launch at the start which quickly turns into a very boring slow corner to corner journey until they hit a little straight section and you get the wild tire spinning thrust to the next boring corner :)

So once you are experienced on the course you realize that 240hp in an E36 M3 is a lot of power. That however doesn't mean it is a fast street car. Let's hope these owners aren't blasting down the streets at insane speeds, but I'm not going to cry if they do a little red light racing late at night when the only people they are putting at risk are themselves.

I'm certainly not going to be the one to tell someone they are dumb for adding more power. I mean it is obviously dumb to have 400hp in an otherwise stock Honda Civic, but these WRX's are pretty capable stock, and cars have never been safer (and heavier). Who are we to bitch out our friends for wanting 300+ hp in there WRX when your mom and dad are driving around in their 270hp Accord?!

You need skill to be fast on a track, you need power to be fast on the street. Let 'em build it up!

I think transmissions should last forever, so I have a biased view. I did not say they were made of glass like some people do.

Having said that - I still would not be modding a car that is on warranty. Since my newest vehicle is 13 years old, that is not a problem.

Speaking of rookies with WRX's... I've been looking for a reason to post this.

http://www.streetfire.net/video/subaru-crashes-into-wall_2265431.htm It wasn't even his car.

That track is really close to me, and has those track days a few times a week.

I read this thread and realized that I ought to just sell the cars I have (and be embarrassed about the ones I had) and should instead autox a Yaris until I've proved that I have the skills to run the 'ring in under 8 minutes.

Or, I could build a car because I want to, to have fun with.
So, uh...how do you guys feel about high powered $2011 cars?

I should add that I drove a 2011 WRX in Aus for a bit. Nice car...but I certainly wouldn't mind more power: it certainly didn't feel that fast to me

ProDarwin wrote:

NGTD wrote: Subaru 5 spd's don't take to extra power and anything but careful shifting well. Subaru has a history of looking very carefully for mods on warranty work.

This is a myth.

There was a time that it seemed awfully true to me, but the later models seem to be much, much better in this regard. They even feel nice.