Now for something completely different, a what car thread!

Everyone else has a what car thread, now at long last it’s my turn.
I’m getting to the time in life where I have the spare time and I’m managing to scrape the $$’s together to get a cheap (emphasis on cheap) toy car again. This is basically being funded by selling the left over junk from past projects. In the past I’ve raced, autocrossed and hillclimbed a variety of cars. (TR7, Opel Manta, Mustang, 323GTX, Miata, Fiesta). This will be a challenge budget level build, but not for the challenge. I’m hoping to find a car for around $1k and then over the next year or so spend another $1k on repairs and upgrades. The build process would be fix anything wrong and make it safe and reliable. Then tackle wheels/tires, then suspension and finally power. The intended use is an all-rounder. Fun day DD, occasional track day and autocross with a growing interest trying Rallycross and TSD’s I’ve really enjoyed GaryP’s 3-4-three triple challenge thread, Javelin’s resurrection thread, Josh’s 318 Rallycross build, all these encompasses what I’m thinking of. One thing I’ve learnt the hard (expensive $$$$$ way) over the years is that the closer a car stays to stock the more you use it and the more fun per $$ you get out of it. After spending way too many $$’s in the past, I’ve spent money returning a car closer to stock and had much more fun with it. By this I mean no one trick ponies, no stripped out interiors. No rock hard suspension, I keep street tires for track use. Keeping HVAC (A/C can go). No major engine swaps etc.
The ideal is a car where springs and shocks make for great suspension. No changing geometry, no need for custom suspension arms, all OEM stuff. Stock-ish or junk yard sourced cheap brake upgrades etc. I have a Kirkey seat that could bolt in for track use and I like the idea of a rear roll bar or cage. Also no steam roller wheels and tires. Must work well on common 15 x 7 wheels and the plethora of ST type tires out that (snows OK for Rallycross and TSD’s). Engine is known strong, not needing internal work to get upgrades, typical Intake Header and exhaust mods work with stock injection, mega Squirt would not be considered for years down the line. I’ve also found over the years that the sweet spot for a street drive can is one that can do the ¼ mile in around 14.0-15.5 seconds. Much quicker than that and you go too fast too soon and much slower than that it feels just dog slow. There’s something very satisfying about coming out of a corner or turn around in 2nd and being able to wind it up to the red line without a)loosing you license every 2 mins or b) being beaten by a soccer mom in a minivan who didn’t even know you were trying. The above restraints put me nicely in the 80’s, no surprise that’s where my preferences are from having come of age in the 80’s. The biggest issue I’m going to have is finding a rust free starting point here in SE Michigan.

My list so far in alphabetical order to not show preference:
BMW E30
Fiat Spider
Ford (Merkur) XR4ti
Mazda Miata (duh)
Mazda Rx7 (Fb or Fc)
Porsche 924
Porsche 944
SAAB 900 turbo (classic)
Volvo 1 series (late 60’s early 70’s), kind of on the list but probably not as they don’t seem to exist around here so I’ll drop them.

Now my initial view of the pros and cons for each car coming up in the following posts then over to the peanut gallery for thoughts and opinions plus other suggestions.

E30. The easy choice.

Pro’s
Hard top so it works for track days and rally cross without a hard top and roll bar.
Engine like Lego, bolt together a nice 327 is strocker. Stay with a stock 325 is and add some bolt on’s or even just an eta with valve springs, cam and a chip.
Engine chips actually work
Great all-rounder on track and rallycross
Good basic suspension and brakes
Cheap Spec racer suspension upgrade
Classic 80’s look although Federal diving boards are seriously ugly, even when tucked.
4x100 bolt circle makes wheels dirt cheap and easy
LSD stock/easy to find
I am required to own one at some point to maintain my GRM card!
Lots of cheap parts

Cons
They all seem to need all the suspension and sub frame bushings replacing.
Rust
Slow steering, needs an E36 rack (not an issue but more time and $$’s)
Diving boards, ugh

Fiat Spider, the odd choice here.

Pro’s
Available cheaper than a Miata, at least a couple of months ago there were 6+ available at any one time on the Various Southern Michigan Craig’s list all for less than $2K
Once you get past the Fix It Again Tony jokes, they actually seem very robust in the mechanical and electrical department
Looks
Interior space greater than Miata
Classic twin cam engine, 80’s cars have efi and seem to like a cam upgrade plus de smogging and more compression
Light

Con’s
Rust
Needs a roll bar and hard tops are unicorns with a price tag to indicate they are made of pure gold. Not good for rally cross
No cheap LSD, but does it need one.
Funky ass bolt circle meaning wheel swaps come from other Fiat’s or Maserati’s!!!!
Steering wheel mounted in a different time zone from the driver, really needs a dished wheel or spacer.
Part prices

Ford (Merkur) XR4Ti

Pro’s
Magic spinning snail means power is stock
Junk yard intercooler and aquarium valve to get to 250hp
Can look like a Cosworth Sierra with some modes if you squint through the bottom of an emptied beer glass.
Simple well known suspension that needs little to work well
Solid shell for track and rallycross work
I work for Ford so it keeps it in the family

Cons
Rust
Finding one, I’ve seen more running Maserati Biturbo’s in the last year than running XR4’s
No easy LSD’s, need to swap the whole diff out
While it can look like a Cossie, in stock form it’s the ugly duckling here.

Miata

DUH!, this would be a BTDT, loved my old one.

Pro’s
It’s the answer!
Simple and reliable. A blind goat in Croatia can fix one in his sleep, not that they need fixing that much.
Shocks, bump stops and top hats makes a great suspension
Wheels and tires are beer change.
Cheap headers etc. on eBay, coil overs kits are less than a one year magazine subscription.
There are clear steps, instructions and how too’s to do anything and everything you can possibly think of to the car.
Common Torsen on 94/95 cars

Con’s
Soft top, must have a roll bar and need a (not cheap) hard top for rally cross.
Finding one with any hint of rocker panels or rear arches in my price range is probably pure fantasy
No way to argue this one, it’s slower than molasses on a cold day. Most cheap ones are 1.6’s which makes it even worse, but I actually prefer how the 1.6’s drove compared to the 1.8’s
If you don’t have an LSD, even used ones are $$$’s days
BTDT
By far the most common car on this list. I probably see more NA Miata’s per week then all the other cars combined in a month.

MADA Rx7

Another BTDT

Pro’s
Looks, great all-rounder for track and rally cross
Reasonable go power from the double spinning triangle of death.
LSD and 4 piston calipers relatively easy to find on FC’s

Con’s
Magic spinning triangles of death. Now I know rotor heads will jump in with dozens of examples of stock engines still running after 3.7 million miles and no maintenance, but on this list (with the exception of the 944 engine) the other engines are all known to be more dependable than the sun rising in the morning and lasting longer than the sun too boot.
Parts
Steering on the FB’s
Rust on all models seems an issue around here and non-rusty ones people think are worth Porsche money.

Porsche 924 (not 931, I’m terrified of those)

A bit of a left field car this one.

Pro’s
Looks second only to the 944
Light
4x100 wheels

Cons
Rust
CIS, let’s face it, although it can be reliable once sorted, it’s not easy to work on, it’s out dated and is a hassle to swap to MS or similar.
Not much can be done with the engine to make it faster for sensible money.
It’s not a 944
Makes a Miata look quick
People think because it’s a Porsche, a good one is worth Boxster money

In reply to Adrian_Thompson:

SE Michigan you say... Rallycross you say... Bias I am, get the FC rx7

Det and both ohio SCCA regions have excellent rallycross.

If you want to run autoX in the 7 keep the rear sway bar, if you want to run rallycross, remove it. I just run covertible springs on OE struts, my suspension is all "stock" aside from removing rear sway bar and bushings, eliminated toe steer bushing.

The cars are super simple, parts are abundant and easy to work on but your looking more at the high 14"s to high 15"s in 1/4 mile time unless you are thinking of a turbo rx7 which is poor for rallycross (per say) they cost more, more to maintain, heavier, more parts etc etc etc but the problem is that they retain heat and cooling issues can result.

however a full exhaust on an NA rotary will open it up really nicely, there is some good local rotary support down here too.

Also to your list there, you cant rallycross a convertible unless you have a hard top for it.

Porsche 944

Pro’s
The looks! The epitome of 80’s cool.
Great balance, probably the best handling car after the Miata here.
Lots of adjustment in the suspension, cheap(ish) parts available used in the way of sway bars, springs and torsion bars
Robust suspension and brakes
Come with good size wheels stock

Con’s
While not a nightmare , it is harder to work on than all the other cars here. Let’s talk clutch change which will be needed at some point.
Silly cam belt made of al dente pasta with a similar propensity to snap, interference engine. Engine mounts, water pumps, relays. These are not the most robust cars on the list.
People think that because it says Porsche on the nose it’s worth Boxster S money.
If I had $3-4k budget this would be the car.

FWIW, there's an Alfa GTV in the Alfa Owner for a great price. and a Spider locally on craigs list that can bring the rest of the hardware. (IIRC, the sum of the two is $500, but I'd have to check the Owner tonight to be sure)

Would require a lot of assembly, but GTV's are pretty nice cars.

YMMV.

Saab 900 Classic turbo

The left field car on the list and the only front wheel driver.

Pro’s
Built like a brick E36 M3 house, solid as a rock
Magic spinning snail of goodness
A classic 810’s look, just behind the 944 and tied with the E30 although it suits the impact bumpers better than the E30 wears its diving boards.
Saab gone bust so it’s an increasing rarity
I DD a Volvo and love Vikings and Norse Mythology!?!?!
Simple to add power to efi engine (not so much CIS) and you can swap on the T5 system from the mid 90’s cars and program it yourself without needing to go MS.
Later cars have 16V engine, better gearbox and bigger brakes
Can you imagine how cool a Blomqvist colored car would look doing rally cross, TSD’s and acting as a Stage rally support vehicle?
Easiest clutch change in history!

Con’s
Not so common bolt circle although wheels can be found from Ford products
When you floor it the back wheels don’t spin!!!
Not so common LSD, although there are options out there, but it seems less prone to issues than some FWD’s
Not so many suspension options out there.

I really want to find a driver so I can see what’s wrong and work on it one bite at a time. I’ve very conscious of biting off too much and getting stalled. I want something I can overhaul the brakes this week end, build an exhaust over the next month then fit, pull and re-dye the carpet another time etc. etc. One bit at a time so it’s still drivable. I’m enough of a realist in my own priorities and abilities that I don’t want to take on a basket case restoration that never gets finished. Time with my friends and family plus 8 hours sleep is more important to me at this stage in life. All-nighters to make the next race are a think of the past. So The 924 is probably too slow and with the CIS it probably drops off the list. The 944 would be great, but I have serious reservations about finding a worthwhile subject in my price range. Rx7’s seem very rust prone and XR4ti’s seem sooo rare. That really leaves Miata’s, although I’m pushing it there on finding a non-rusty one. Saab’s aren’t common although I love the idea. E30’s are sort of the de facto leader, but the ones I’ve looked at so far have been too far gone to bother with.
So Throw it at me guys and girls; give me your thoughts to keep me entertained.

Everything up here is rust prone.

What about an X1/9?

fidelity101 wrote: In reply to Adrian_Thompson: SE Michigan you say... Rallycross you say... Bias I am, get the FC rx7 Det and both ohio SCCA regions have excellent rallycross. If you want to run autoX in the 7 keep the rear sway bar, if you want to run rallycross, remove it. I just run covertible springs on OE struts, my suspension is all "stock" aside from removing rear sway bar and bushings, eliminated toe steer bushing. The cars are super simple, parts are abundant and easy to work on but your looking more at the high 14"s to high 15"s in 1/4 mile time unless you are thinking of a turbo rx7 which is poor for rallycross (per say) they cost more, more to maintain, heavier, more parts etc etc etc but the problem is that they retain heat and cooling issues can result. however a full exhaust on an NA rotary will open it up really nicely, there is some good local rotary support down here too. Also to your list there, you cant rallycross a convertible unless you have a hard top for it.

I keep reading about rally cross, but I've never competed in one, but it looks tons of fun. About 5 years ago Det SCCA held a rally cross at my friends place in Saline. I could enter as all I had there that day was my wifes Geo Tracker with no hard top, but trust me after you guys left we did lot's of laps in that and their Focus. Lot's of fun.

Yes I know about needing a hard top, which is an issue on cost grounds for both the Miata and Fiat.

I had an 88 GTU Rx7 when I first moved to the States in 94, aloy hood, 4 piston calipers, LSD etc. Great car, but not many around in presentable condition.

I know the GXL's got the 5 lug wheels, did they get the 4 piston brakes and LSD too?

My only issue with power making exhausts on Rotary's in the noise. I'm 15 years past noisy exhausts. Can you make power and not make your ears bleed?

BoxheadTim wrote: What about an X1/9?

Tim, do you know where I live? Detroit is built on top of a salt mine (not kidding here). The bonus of every X1/9 I've seen in Michigan is it's already had a 50% weight redsuction, the down side is that 50% came from structural components.

alfadriver wrote: FWIW, there's an Alfa GTV in the Alfa Owner for a great price. and a Spider locally on craigs list that can bring the rest of the hardware. (IIRC, the sum of the two is $500, but I'd have to check the Owner tonight to be sure) Would require a lot of assembly, but GTV's are pretty nice cars. YMMV.

OK, I'm stoopid enough to bite, where's the GTV ad? how much assembly, although I really need to stick to my no total restoration projects rule as I konw myself.

Fiat 124 coupe or spyder? I love the looks when de-bumpered... and twin cam aluminum 4 banger w/ 5 speed is pretty slick for the era. I cannot imagine that fresh bushings, dampers and modern tires would not transform the thing.

If you pitch in for gas oil and food you can rallycross mine.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Fiat 124 coupe or spyder? I love the looks when de-bumpered... and twin cam aluminum 4 banger w/ 5 speed is pretty slick for the era. I cannot imagine that fresh bushings, dampers and modern tires would not transform the thing.

Fiat Spider is on the list, biggest issue is a hard top. Fiat 124 Coupe? I don't think I've ever seen one in the flesh on this continent. Find me one with out the organic superleggera option (rust) in SE Mi, running for $1k and I'll be there tonight to view it.

fidelity101 wrote: If you pitch in for gas oil and food you can rallycross mine.

That's a kind offer, if I'm free the weekend of the next event I may well take you up on that. I assume your in SE Mi?

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Find me one with out the organic superleggera option (rust) in SE Mi, running for $1k and I'll be there tonight to view it.

You would be there to view me loading it onto my trailer. Find your own damn bargains! :)

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

fidelity101 wrote: If you pitch in for gas oil and food you can rallycross mine.

That's a kind offer, if I'm free the weekend of the next event I may well take you up on that. I assume your in SE Mi?

Royal Oak. I think someone has already claimed the November event's seat but I'll have to double check and see.

Adrian_Thompson wrote:

BoxheadTim wrote: What about an X1/9?

Tim, do you know where I live? Detroit is built on top of a salt mine (not kidding here). The bonus of every X1/9 I've seen in Michigan is it's already had a 50% weight redsuction, the down side is that 50% came from structural components.

I realise that you're in rust central, but doesn't the involuntary weight reduction also affect most of the other cars on your list?

Adrian_Thompson wrote: I know the GXL's got the 5 lug wheels, did they get the 4 piston brakes and LSD too? My only issue with power making exhausts on Rotary's in the noise. I'm 15 years past noisy exhausts. Can you make power and not make your ears bleed?

Yes and Yes. Actually I have a nice Racingbeat exhaust for sale off my GXL. It's too quiet for my taste.