When I was at audi we had an RS7 come in that the customer had taken to a JL type place and they crammed the wrong cartridge filter into the oil filter housing. Like, to the point they had to squish it down a good half inch. Melted the 600hp twin turbo v8. Biiiiiig bill on that one.
Update:
The transmission was just deemed a complete loss to the ring of $9,036.58 -- still no word on the engine being overfilled. ouch
Thanks to all for the information and advice! Has been massively helpful
Since we are having a wider discussion on this:
Very often at these places the person doing the work is allotted a minimal amount of time to do the work; hence the frequent mistakes.
So it isn't always that the people doing the work are incompetent.
It's a vicious circle; the average person wants a bargain and companies are trying to keep a certain margin as they need to be profitable to stay in business. To do so requires either cutting the labor costs (give the tech a 15 minute deadline) or material costs (use cheap parts) and very often it's both.
Some places use the cheap oil change as a loss leader but not every place can do that.
Exactly right......couple that with no time or trained mechanics to train the newbies. I don't know how they stay in business......I think anyone would be happy to spend 30 min instead of 15 if they knew it would improve their chances of driving home in a properly functioning car. But that's not the business model.....
I used a quick lube place near my house in Sandy Eggo back in the day - I had an 86 Mustang V8, and they let me stand out in the shop with the oil changers and watch. I also brought my own filter. Never had an issue with them, but I'll bet you can't do that any more.
In reply to MiniDave :
There is one - Jiffy Lube actually - near me that does. Always the same old guy as the service advisor, calls you over and says "this is the Jiffy Lube special we're supposed to be pushing, you don't need it, here are your other things, you're gonna need brake pads on the back in the next 10k miles but you're safe for now, and your cabin air filter is good but you probably want to get the engine air filter replaced sooner than later" and then he'll show me why.
Actually one of my favorite oil change places is one of those 5-minute stay in your car places. I'll only go when I see "that one guy with the beard" working, but he's fast, thorough, and good. Not sure if he's the manager or the owner, but I've talked to him at length about oil certifications and whatnot.
The internet loves to rag on quicklube places but the fact is that oil changes aren't that hard and they do hundreds of them a week. I trust them more than I trust myself.
I went to one of these joints one time. The weather was horrible outdoors and I was getting ready to leave on a road trip. I had to work in the driveway in pouring rain on top of snow so decided to take the easy way out. I'm in my RX7 and when I hear the air impact come out that's when I got out of my car even though I was told specifically not to and got in the pit and pointed out none of that was necessary, the oil filter is up on top. It was the only time and last time that I have paid for one of those outfits to attempt to butcher my car. I still can't figure out what he was going to remove
When I worked at Super Lube 15 or so years ago, the policy was that only the Manager or the Assistant (to the regional) Manager were allowed to work on Subarus for this exact reason.
It's a tall order to expect them to know the details on every car, but I agree - there's absolutely no need for in impact wrench......unless they were the last ones to tighten the drain plug.
Can't tell you how many drain plugs I've found torqued to 1000 ft lbs or damaged beyond belief.
How new is the car. I would be pushing for a new trans, not a re-man depending on how old it is. Also, an over filled motor can really mess things up in some cars. I would want the Subaru dealership to inspect and issue in wrighting their findings. (overfilled oil empty trans and resulting damage this can cause/did cause)
Lastly I would try and go through your own insurance and let them go after the quick lube place. If your insurance gets the $$$$ back from the quick lube place then I don't see there being any worry about getting dropped for making the claim. It is what you pay them for.
If things get sticky this is a case where a lawyer may be a good investment. A carefully written letter from legal counsel can sometimes get the wheels to move quicker and in your favor. Not that we are going to sue you and see you in court letter but a carefully laid out this is what we expect to happen to make your whole letter.
At least this kind of letter may head off them not trying to screw you over with a used trans from a car with 150K miles on it as fair compensation for your "new" car trans.
On another note, if the car is really very new I wonder what the trade-in value of the car is and what the dollars are to just get a new car. This could be an option Look up the FMV for your car pre damaged trans and then see what getting a new one would be. Split the difference with them?
EDIT Seeing the 10K number for just the trans I would be looking at making a deal that gets you into a new car. On the flip side if there is motor damage due to overfilled oil I wonder what the total threshold would be. At some point, I would just be demanding a new car. (I know it does not work that way but I would be so mad)
At some point, there will have to be a diminished value claim considered. If this hits the car fax how will it look?
I'm curious why a new Subaru goes to Jiffy Lube for routine service. With the cost of of new cars you're not making a purchase as much as an investment and the dealer, from the customer's point of view, is your business partner. Unless the Subaru dealer has demonstrated they are not capable of servicing the car that's where I'd take it.
Backstory: At 145,000 miles the '09 Odyssey went to the dealer (from where it was purchased and where every service and repair, save a set of rear brake pads had been performed) for oil and filter change. After a reasonable period of time it was brought back to the service writers desk to be picked up by Mrs. SupeDave. Visible from the service waiting area she wondered why so many service staff were suddenly looking at our van. They had not put oil in it after draining the old. They admitted the mistake and provided a new '15 Odyssey for the trip home. The engine was torn down and deemed not repairable. They sourced a replacement engine from a salvage yard, installed it, warranted the replacement for 12 months/20,000 miles. Took about three weeks as I recall and we had use of the '15 Odyssey the entire time. During the three weeks I got to know the service manager. The replacement engine has performed without issue for 143,000 miles. And the same dealer has provided all subsequent maintenance and repairs. They haven't been perfect but they've always delivered without too much problem.
I'm not a dealer advocate but I have to think the dealer that sold you the car is more invested in keeping you happy with that car than anyone else.
I hope Jiffy Lube stands behind the customer and does the right thing.
In reply to SuperDave :
way easier to get an oil change done at a jiffy lube for convenience than a dealership
Update #3
Iffy is now asking Subaru for test data to prove that damage was incurred to the transmission. They will “not approve any repair without it.” Their technician of 40 years experience claims that they cannot take the “word” of the dealer.
Highlights from the email exchange:
“The most likely outcome here is that we write up a warranty agreement where we agree to be responsible for that transmission if there’s any issues that arise in the future.”
“What needs to happen: the vehicle needs to be driven more. As we have said, please drive the car and let us know the symptoms. One of our employees needs to confirm a symptom is present before we can authorize a repair”
“We confirmed that 3.5 quarts were installed into your vehicle’s transmission when you came back in. I’m sorry you were not given that record[…] — Also, you should know that transmissions work in a way where most of the fluid sits in the torque converter. If you drain the transmission pan you will only get a portion of the fluid. That is known by all mechanics.”
They also walked back their rental car reimbursement as they do not believe the situation calls for it. They recommend she start driving her car again and stop paying for a rental.
In reply to Peanu_Keeyes :
This is going to sound arrogant; but if you are a truly a technician why would you work for Jiffy Lube, especially with 40 years of experience?
Tom1200 said:In reply to Peanu_Keeyes :
This is going to sound arrogant; but if you are a truly a technician why would you work for Jiffy Lube, especially with 40 years of experience?
Maybe he's been a JL mechanic for 40 years. Haven't they been around since the 70's?
In reply to Tom1200 :
Retirement gig?
Peanu_Keeyes said:“What needs to happen: the vehicle needs to be driven more. As we have said, please drive the car and let us know the symptoms. One of our employees needs to confirm a symptom is present before we can authorize a repair”
A big-box store once denied to warranty my skipping ratchet because, while it was under warranty, it "wasn't broken enough."
Later that day, the skipping ratchet had an unlucky encounter with my vise and sledgehammer. When I brought the pieces back the next day, it was warrantied without any questions.
I'm not suggesting you do anything unethical. But I figured this completely unrelated story might be fun to tell.
Tom1200 said:In reply to Peanu_Keeyes :
This is going to sound arrogant; but if you are a truly a technician why would you work for Jiffy Lube, especially with 40 years of experience?
Could it be in the context of Jiffy Lube having a staffer at corporate HQ? An expert-type who helps write policies, approve training, and reviews situations like these?
Tom1200 said:In reply to Peanu_Keeyes :
This is going to sound arrogant; but if you are a truly a technician why would you work for Jiffy Lube, especially with 40 years of experience?
There's a 'd' student in every class.
Reminds me of a friend who drove a Porsche 914-6. He loaned it to his girlfriend who took it to a regular gas station for a fill up. The engine in that model was dry sumped and apparently the oil filler looks similar to a gas filler......(she didn't start it again - she came out, saw them and asked WTF they thought they were doing. It cost the gas station some money to have the cars towed to a competent garage where they could flush the engine etc.) The correct gas filler (and tank) is in the front of the car.
Oil filler:
ShawnG said:Tom1200 said:In reply to Peanu_Keeyes :
This is going to sound arrogant; but if you are a truly a technician why would you work for Jiffy Lube, especially with 40 years of experience?
There's a 'd' student in every class.
A little bit OT, but what do you call the last student in a class full of doctors? Doctor.
I wasn't the greatest student in nursing school, but damn near everywhere I've worked, other people looked to me for an/the answer. Nobody cares about what my grades were, just that I'm confident in my decisions involving someone's morality.
I just wanted to point out that for the few that mentioned car insurance, this isn't something that would be covered so there would be no opportunity for subrogation.
Peanu_Keeyes said:Update #3
Iffy is now asking Subaru for test data to prove that damage was incurred to the transmission. They will “not approve any repair without it.” Their technician of 40 years experience claims that they cannot take the “word” of the dealer.
“What needs to happen: the vehicle needs to be driven more. As we have said, please drive the car and let us know the symptoms. One of our employees needs to confirm a symptom is present before we can authorize a repair”
“We confirmed that 3.5 quarts were installed into your vehicle’s transmission when you came back in. I’m sorry you were not given that record[…] — Also, you should know that transmissions work in a way where most of the fluid sits in the torque converter. If you drain the transmission pan you will only get a portion of the fluid. That is known by all mechanics.”
They also walked back their rental car reimbursement as they do not believe the situation calls for it. They recommend she start driving her car again and stop paying for a rental.
IMO this is unreasonable. Subaru, an independent party in this case, is the maker of the car and knows, intimately, their product.
Also, asking her to continue to drive a potentially unsafe vehicle is unreasonable.
Get a lawyer who is fmiliar with auto cases. Also, I would imagine there are similar cases vs JLube get that lawyer if you can.
I think it is reasonable to want to confirm there is actually an issue before replacing a transmission that might not need it. I also think a used one is fine, as that's what she had before.
They made a mistake. It happens. Getting the vehicle back to the same condition it was before the mistake is what needs to happen, they don't need to be crucified.
The Subaru Dealer is not an independent party, they stand to profit on the repair.
Steve_Jones said:I think it is reasonable to want to confirm there is actually an issue before replacing a transmission that might not need it. I also think a used one is fine, as that's what she had before.
They made a mistake. It happens. Getting the vehicle back to the same condition it was before the mistake is what needs to happen, they don't need to be crucified.
The Subaru Dealer is not an independent party, they stand to profit on the repair.
All of this right here. Yup it is a bummer it happened, now they need to get you back to where you were the day before you rolled into their bay. Drive for a while, take an oil sample, see how it is. Of course Subaru says to replace, that's a nice fat bill for them and no liability out the door.
68TR250 said:New or New to her? Agree with everything in writing or recorded.
This is important. If it is new and still under factory warranty or an extended warranty, she needs to have all new parts installed. A used engine cannot be warranted by Subaru at a later time. Keep in mind that there are emission warranties that extend well beyond the 36 mo/36,ooo mi. base and 60 mo/60k mile warranties depending on where she lives.
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