Old ? New paint?

I have a chance to trade one of my Jaguar cars (really a bitsa of three cars) for a Rolls Royce.. The down side is the Rolls Royce is in primer and has been for 15 years or more.. The good news is there is three gallons of unopened paint (lacquer) that has been on the shelf for 10 years.. I opened one can and it seems OK once I stirred it up.. What do you think are the chances of it still being OK?

The car was stored in a heated garage. Primer is nicely block sanded. It shows no signs of failure or rust underneath. The bad news is the engine is in pieces and appears to be junk.. Engine swap time I'm afraid.. While that will kill resale value I have very little in the Jaguar except time. While it's a nicely running car that looks good I am tempted by a Rolls Royce that needs only the engine swap and my labor of painting..

I don't know much about paint, but isn't lacquer paint pretty cheap? Like cheap enough that it's not worth messing with the old stuff? Just my .02

Also what engine are you swapping in? Do something super weird.

Lacquer paint is correct for these older cars and will look way better than a modern base/clear IMHO. Added in that some places won't let you spray it anymore. It might be worth at least test spraying. That said I have no idea the shelf life on it and a Rolls scares the hell out of me as far as cost of ownership.

If you are swapping out the engine, remember you have to deal with swapping out the entire suspension and braking system as well.

The hydraulics are run off a pump driven by the cam. It is a ridiculously high pressure system with Citroen pressure reservoirs on all four corners to keep the car in the air and allow some braking to happen when the engine inevitably dies.

Oh yeah, those Citroen spheres have a 5 year shelf life and if/when they fail the car is undriveable.

There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Rolls Royce.

In reply to gearheadmb: I suppose a Chevy is the normal swap but I'm thinking maybe the Jag V12 (I've got 5 of them with transmissions sitting around) The advantage there is it is so narrow I might be able to do something in the space the fat V8 sat in..

Lacquer paint is what the car was painted with originally and I have a lot of experience with it.. It's easy to blend together so I won't need to do Door, hood, and trunk Jams which would increase the work by too much. I don't know if it's possible to get the exact correct mix anymore since none of the local paint supply places sell it.. Oh, they will order it but I haven't had good luck with that approach..

In reply to Jumper K. Balls: Hydraulics really are simple.. Get the Volume and pressure correct and any pump will work.. Years ago I got a non-functioning Citroen SM working and I suspect if I can do that then maybe I should at least attempt the Rolls Royce.. If I fail then I've lost little except time.. The Bitsa Jag has less than $500 in it and a couple hundred hours of time.. While I think it's cool it wouldn't be nearly as much fun as the attention a Rolls Royce would.

Joe Gearin wrote: There is nothing more expensive than a cheap Rolls Royce.

That's true about anything you lose control of.. Airplanes can be simple but if you need an A&P license to do anything the most simple task becomes insanely expensive.. Etc. etc. etc. The question is are there ways around the problems/issues?

Lacquer should keep essentially forever if sealed. If it has gassed off over time and none has been used from a can, add lacquer thinner to replenish what's evaporated. I'd have all the cans shaken in a proper paint shaker to assure thorough mixing and color match. I would probably box all 3 gallons into a plastic pail, mix and re-distribute to assure color match between cans. I've bought lacquer base primer that's Dupli-Color brand by the gallon, but I believe it was pre-thinned, which is a ripoff, like pre-diluted antifreeze.

In my experience, lacquer shoots beautifully w/ conventional guns, less so with HVLP. You need to apply many thin coats to allow dried-down film thickness to cut and buff.

When I did my '62 Sprite I ended up using a single-stage acrylic enamel with a urethane hardener rather than niutrocellulose lacquer. 15 years later I'm glad I did.

In reply to frenchyd:

Whats a usable Jag V12 with trans worth? I have a packard sitting around with a junk straight 8 that needs something interesting swapped in.

frenchyd wrote: In reply to gearheadmb: I suppose a Chevy is the normal swap but I'm thinking maybe the Jag V12 (I've got 5 of them with transmissions sitting around)

Just saying thing out loud but if you are thinking of sticking a V12 jag in a Rolls Royce that yearly optional cat scan might need to be mandatory.

I highly want to watch this car come together. Also paint should be fine as long as there is no water in it, finding a booth where you can shoot it nowadays might be more difficult.

I'll just say this: I always wanted to see a Rolls painted flat black with skulls.

The sealed paint can should be fine. However the primer may fail under it. Primer is hydroscopic even if it been dry and garaged I'd sand it re-primer or better use a primer sealer (make sure its lacquer safe!!). Nothing worce then having sheets of dry paint peel off.

44Dwarf wrote: Primer is hydroscopic even if it been dry and garaged I'd sand it re-primer or better use a primer sealer (make sure its lacquer safe!!).

The term you are looking for is hygroscopic, meaning the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. Hydroscopic is an adjective referring to an optical device used for viewing objects under water.

In reply to gearheadmb: The cheapest and easiest way is buy a running car from the junkyard sales. Take the bit's you need and scrap the rest. A few hundred dollars has bought more than a few V12's that way..
I've paid as little as $50 to someone who wanted to put a Chevy V8 in and thought the V12 was too complex.. (He also had a lot of empty beer cans sitting around) The real market varies from $300 to $500 with a slight premium paid for the 6.0 litre. Mind you if you want the fuel injection computer and harness it will be more. I don't know how much more because I don't usually go that way.. The simpliest way would be to watch the auctions for wrecked Cars.

While the transmission can be free to $1200 for the latest Overdrive version.. Cast Iron Case Borg Warner free. Turbo 400 maybe $150 (But be very careful, More than a few have had their heavy duty component parts replaced with light duty parts during rebuild).

What can happen is the common problem of lag in shifting caused by a cheap transmission fluid flush that causes a three dollar part to slide loose. (It happens on all Turbo 400's (Chevy, GMC, Olds, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac if the job isn't done properly )

In reply to wearymicrobe: Paint Booth? what's wrong with the approach I normally use? Which is, clean out the garage. Blow out the dust etc.. in the corners, rafters, and floor. Wash the floor, hang cheap plastic sheeting, spray.. I know you can't do that anymore with the toxic 2 part paints etc.. but Lacquer? As far as a Jaguar goes.. I know the horror stories but most of them are spread by ignorant people who aren't really skilled. If you've ever seen a V12 apart you will be in absolute awe of it.. It's absolutely brilliant with massive potential.. 7&1/2 liters 750+ horsepower and it can be reliable enough to win a 24 hour race. They've even brought it out to over 10 liters for use in a scaled down P51 Mustang..

The transmission in most of them is the reliable Turbo 400 used in countless GM cars and trucks.(Jag uses the Big heavy duty one used in tow trucks and ambulances) Yet I heard a Mechanic at a transmission shop tell a customer the pause in shifting meant it needed a complete rebuild and that would cost $6500 Actually it's a well known GM problem if the fluid isn't properly changed.. The part costs less than $3 retail and a slow mechanic might take 10 minutes to replace..

Engine running hot? If the radiator doesn't have a mass of debris stuck between the A/C and radiator (same as any car), chances are the distributor hasn't been oiled. Yes Jaguar needs a few drops of oil every other oil change to make sure the advance/ retard mechanism remains free..

Open the hood and a V12 appears pretty daunting but it's just 2 six cylinders or 1&1/2 V8's works the same way except you need to take one shoe off to count to 12 (the factory does make it easier, you really only need to count to 6 and remember side A and B)

Lacquer or not you have to read the labels. Especially the hardeners have cyanide. If you are set up for it and know what you are doing ok. If not get ready for some major health problems.

Aside from that it sounds like you have the basics for a good diy job. I like to really wet the floor down good before spraying to keep the dust down. Also i really recommend a homemade dryer system if you dont already have one. Could be as simple/cheap as a length of copper tube in a bucket of ice water or some plumbing pipe filled with reusable silica beads.

I like the hvlp harbor freight gun if you just want to try one out without a big investment ($10-15). It will cut way down on overspray and wasted paint. (If you do try it make sure to take it apart and clean it well and make sure its otherwise dialed in correctly.)

In reply to jere: Oh I've got more than a few of the old style paint guns.. My favorite is a Snap-On labeled Devilbis (sp?) That has probably painted 20 plus cars and all of the doors and trim in my house.. The HVLP guns I've bought seem to work best with 2 part paints and are too sensitive to in line air pressure fluctuations..

The first time I encountered a 2 part paint was back in the 1970's and it nearly proved my undoing.. What saved me was the big open garage door in the shop I sprayed in.. After that whenever I had to resort to the two part paints or any paint with cyanide in it I used a full suit and fresh air supply.

As for wetting down the floors. I always make sure that the floor is fully dry before painting otherwise the resulting humidity has caused cloudy muddy looking paint rather than the brilliant, deep, rich, shine only Lacquer can give..