Chris_V wrote:
mad_machine wrote:
Chris_V wrote:
My Volt may have used the same materials to BUILD, but in OPERATION it uses almost none in comparison. It uses less goddamn electricity than my home computer to commute with and run errands (my monthly bill, from plugging it in every night and driving every day, has seen less than an $8 increase since I've had the car over the same periods the previous year)
Now there is a good thought. Chris, as you own a Volt. Kindly do us a favour and figure out your monthly expeniture in fuel and electricity and tell us how far you drive during that time. Lets see how much more efficent the Volt is compared to most ICE cars
My monthly expenditure in fuel for commuting and running errands is zero. My monthly expenditure in electricity is about $8, so far as I can figure. I use 1.2 kWh to go to work each day. and another 1.2 to get home. That's about 22 cents at my present electricity rates. Multiply that by 20 days a month commuting and you get a monthly commuting figure. (about $4.40) add in the errand running and fun trips on the weekend and I'll double that for about $8 for a month. I spent about $100 per month in fuel in my Mustang and BMW to do the same running around.
Now, I also spend $30 less per month to insure the Volt then either the BMW or the Mustang, but, I pay another $50 per month for the car itself vs the Mustang ($350 vs $300). But for the sake of comparison, it's better to compare it to another new car similarly equipped, so an Accord or Camry with all the options (since my Volt is fully loaded other than backup camera). Either of those will cost about the same to own as the Volt, but will use fuel to do the commute. In my case, probably $50-75 in fuel to do the same running around every month.
As I said in the other thread about it, if you really want to save money, you buy a $1000 beater and drive it into the ground. But there are a lot of other reasons to buy a car.
you answered my last post while I was typing it.
That said, let me ask a question (and I don't know the current answer):
Did you get a tax write-off or any kind of taxpayer-funded subsidy as part of your purchase of the Volt? Just curious, because that would be seen (by me) as part of MY expenses for you to own a Volt ;)
and why is your home computer on 24/7? 
unless you pay MORE in taxes every time someone buys one, then it doesn't cost YOU any for ME to buy one. 
And no, I didn't get the tax credits, the leasing company did, 
Basically your taxes don't go up if mine or the leasing companies' go down, so you're NOT subsidizing it. A tax break is not the same as a subsidy (which is literally paying to do something or not do something, like paying farmers cash not to grow crops...). We give tax breaks to businesses to start up in various locales, or to start and run home businesses. We give tax breaks for mortgages, we give tax breaks for families, etc.
And unless you don't take any of those tax breaks yourself, you really can't complain... I mean I get a tax break for operating my own home business, but you and others never bitched that you are subsidizing my home business. Because you aren't.
irish44j wrote:
and why is your home computer on 24/7?
I use it a lot for both work and play and it takes less time to jump on the computer like I did just now then it does to wait for it to boot up from powered down.
Chris_V wrote:
unless you pay MORE in taxes every time someone buys one, then it doesn't cost YOU any for ME to buy one. And no, *I* didn't get the tax credits, the leasing company did,
Basically your taxes don't go up if mine or the leasing companies' go down, so you're NOT subsidizing it. A tax break is not the same as a subsidy (which is literally paying to do something or not do something, like paying farmers cash not to grow crops...). We give tax breaks to businesses to start up in various locales, or to start and run home businesses. We give tax breaks for mortgages, we give tax breaks for families, etc.
And unless you don't take any of those tax breaks yourself, you really can't complain... I mean I get a tax break for operating my own home business, but you and others never bitched that you are subsidizing my home business. Because you aren't.
Yes, I'm aware of how government programs work.....really I just meant subsidy/credit - I thought there was some kind of program for the Volts that the gov't paid a certain amount of the price for EVs, but maybe not, I can't say I've looked into it much since I don't have one.
I wasn't complaining, however, just asking out of curiosity with a light jab at the end....I work for DoD. I spend every day seeing my tax money thrown at things that we don't need and didn't ask for (mostly via Congressional outlays that were not requested by the dep't, which are almost always pork for defense contractors). MY tax money is long gone long before it gets to any lower-tier program, so I really don't sweat tax expenditures or credits regarless, haha..
A government subsidy is always out of the pockets of ALL the taxpayers. To go along with the electric/hybrid subsidy there's also the $1.50/gallon ethanol subsidy which is the ONLY reason that E85 is even close to the price of E10 or E15 at the pump.
Not that it makes a real difference with all the other crap our government blows our money on for no real good reason.
At the end of the day, electric cars are still not all that much cleaner than the ICE cars the great unwashed masses drive for the reasons which have been covered in this thread. Yes, I think they are a step in the right direction. But no they are NOT the be all and end all. They are also not the only possible direction we can go with our transportation needs.
I mentioned methane earlier; it's quite possible to immediately make a move to methane powered cars with current technology. The infrastructure is mostly there already and existing vehicles could even be retrofitted. This would make a much bigger positive impact on the environment than a small percentage of hybrid and full electric cars are making. But where's the government subsidy for methane power? Ah, I know: it's not as sexy as electric.So there's not any social engineering through tax policy for it.
