PA Antique/Classic Registration

Winter will soon be over and autocross season is a mere 4 weeks away...this means it's time for me to get the RX7 tagged and insured, finally. Because the car is LS1 swapped and missing cats, evap system, ect. the plan all along as been to register it as a classic to get around emissions testing, but thinking about it some more, why wouldn't I just register it as an antique?

The difference is basically classic = >15 years old, no emissions inspection, lifetime registration. Antique = >25 years old, no emissions OR safety inspection, lifetime registration. 

So it qualifies for either, with the big difference being that antique gets me out of annual safety inspection as well. Apparently they used to make you submit pictures to prove the car was "substantially in conformity with manufacturer specifications and appearance" but that's not a thing anymore, so I'm not really worried about it. It's a subjective standard anyways . I'm not really worried about my usage being an issue either, it's going to be driven to work maybe once a week, but mostly driven on the weekends and to/from events. 

Give it a try.  I have my MGA registered as an antique in PA and it was super easy, but my car is stock-ish and 58 years old. 

PA requires antique cars to be as released from the factory. They do not even want an aftermarket stereo in them. They failed my Fiat spider from getting those tags because of the rims, while they were of the same vintage as the car, they were not fiat rims. I moved out of Pa not long after that, so it was not a big deal

My rally car is has antique registration, so things have changed a bit since mad_machine tried it.  No issues despite how very clearly NOT stock it is.

In reply to mad_machine :

Did you have to submit pics with your registration application? As I understand it, that used to be a thing and they were Nazis about it, but in the last few years they have dropped the requirement for pictures and gotten substantially more lax about what passes. 

In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ :

Perfect, that's what I needed to hear. 

In reply to Furious_E :

They have dropped the requirement.

I registered my TR6 as antique in PA about a year ago.  No photos - I just sent in the form and the money.  They say that it must get 'limited' use and then define that as no more than once a week.  I'm not sure who is checking on that .  Probably not supposed to drive it to work so if something happens - remember, you weren't going to work.

Antique doesn't need safety inspection?

That was my one hangup when I renewed the miata registration this year. I was going to go classic to not deal with emissions, but I've got am electrical gremlin to chase down that prevented it from passing safety last year. Because I guess a bad marker light is worse than no brake lights. 

May have to look back into antique then. I only put 625 miles on it since September 2016, so the usage clauses don't bother me.

Why would you worry? The police haven't got the faintest idea about what stickers antique vs classic tags require. Or any of the other 'rules' in PA. Remember, we often know the rules much better than the police. (I once heard an officer at the gun permit dept in the courthouse say that open carry was illegal.....)

I've never had any stickers on my classic tagged vehicles. I'd go with whichever you can get proper white/purple plates for.

I thought PA allowed under 5000 miles of usage to be emissions-exempt. You'll still need a safety inspection (which means you need two sway bars) but most autocross cars should pass.

I am not a PA resident. I'm just moving there. :P

In reply to Kylini :

Yes, BUT...the issue with going that route, as I understand it, is you need to have had it registered and passed safety and emissions inspection, then have accrued <5000 miles in the previous year before you can get that exemption. So you're good from there on out, but it still has to pass once. Which it won't. 

Safety inspection I have no real concerns about, it's just a yearly hassle I'd prefer to avoid. Unless you "know a guy," it seems that they never give you your sticker until they ding you for a ticky tack little issue. And FWIW, my Cherokee passed last year with one sway bar no problem (but the 3 month old wiper blades and ratchet strap battery tie down were no bueno.)

Where in PA are you moving to?

In reply to Furious_E :

<5000 miles the previous year, unless the name on the registration changes. That was a $600 lesson.

Again, why are you worried about safety stickers?

Unless you're parked in the city, nobody enforces them. My tow rig  has never had safety stickers ever. On a classic or antique tagged car, nobody will ever ask.

In reply to Blaise :

I'm sure most cops don't have a clue, and I would have no issue bending a few rules if that's what it took to get this thing on the road, but it seems just as easy to keep things on the up and up as it is not to. 

I'll have to ask the notary what determines which plates you get, because I'd much rather have the purple ones rather than the regular looking ones with the stupid little Model T image on them. Those are dorky as hell. Actually, what I would really like is the old style yellow on blue, but it seems that you can only use an old style plate if it's from prior to 1975 AND matches the model year of the vehicle you're putting it on. Which is impossible when the car is an '87...

In reply to Blaise :

I've seen a ticket for bad inspection stickers turn into 11 years without a license. The piece of mind a $60 sticker gives to not have to go through that is worth it. 

Can't afford to fix it in time or pay the ticket the cops take your license. There is no public transport to speak of where I live even to this day, so that turns into getting to work without a license, which leads to a $400 ticket for driving without a license and another year suspension. It's a vicious cycle. 

Not my personal experience, but an old roommate I lived with for a while. 

In reply to Blaise :

Because it's just as easy to do this the legal way as it is to say berkeley it. 

Furious_E said:

In reply to Kylini :

Yes, BUT...the issue with going that route, as I understand it, is you need to have had it registered and passed safety and emissions inspection, then have accrued <5000 miles in the previous year before you can get that exemption. So you're good from there on out, but it still has to pass once. Which it won't. 

Safety inspection I have no real concerns about, it's just a yearly hassle I'd prefer to avoid. Unless you "know a guy," it seems that they never give you your sticker until they ding you for a ticky tack little issue. And FWIW, my Cherokee passed last year with one sway bar no problem (but the 3 month old wiper blades and ratchet strap battery tie down were no bueno.)

Where in PA are you moving to?

Penn State. Renting a house in Zion. My understanding is that my RallyCross Miata'll have to pass a visual emissions or have written proof of <5000 miles per year. I haven't gotten clarification if visual inspection includes the check engine light.

In reply to Kylini :

Check engine light is usually an automatic fail, even for a loose gas cap. 

I'm guessing it's pre OBD2 since you mention visual inspection, some places might still put it on a sniffer if they have one. 

I know Centre county requires emissions, but not what they're specifically following. Despite the list of counties that do emissions tests, some of the counties do things differently, particularly in the east side of the side. Here I have to get a sniffer test on my 93, but I've heard of people in Philly area needing a dyno emissions test of some sort. 

Still,  if you need to detune and install a catalytic converter, or whatever to pass, you should only need to do it once if you keep your miles down. 

Unless the rumors I've been hearing of PA wanting to adopt statewide CARB standards are true, then we're all screwed and should buy PO boxes at a UPS store in West Virginia to register our vehicles to. 

I'm not an expert or professional, but I do have someone with their state licensing on speed dial so I could ask him some specific questions if you wanted. 

In reply to Kylini :

I believe visual inspection does include the CEL, but they don't plug it in or anything. So if the bulb were to, you know, just burn out or something...

RevRico said:

In reply to Kylini :

Check engine light is usually an automatic fail, even for a loose gas cap. 

I'm guessing it's pre OBD2 since you mention visual inspection, some places might still put it on a sniffer if they have one. 

I know Centre county requires emissions, but not what they're specifically following. Despite the list of counties that do emissions tests, some of the counties do things differently, particularly in the east side of the side. Here I have to get a sniffer test on my 93, but I've heard of people in Philly area needing a dyno emissions test of some sort. 

Still,  if you need to detune and install a catalytic converter, or whatever to pass, you should only need to do it once if you keep your miles down. 

Unless the rumors I've been hearing of PA wanting to adopt statewide CARB standards are true, then we're all screwed and should buy PO boxes at a UPS store in West Virginia to register our vehicles to. 

I'm not an expert or professional, but I do have someone with their state licensing on speed dial so I could ask him some specific questions if you wanted. 

According to http://www.ahs.dep.pa.gov/aq_apps/emissions/test.aspx I'll be in Centre County and my 1999 (OBDII) will require "gas cap check and visual inspection" which are defined here: http://www.ahs.dep.pa.gov/aq_apps/emissions/testinfo.htm

Basically, they'll do a visual inspection to determine that I have a cat, EGR, PCV, and other goodies (which I do). I explicitly do not need an OBD scan, which is good because my rear O2 sensor isn't so hot.

The question is whether or not a check engine light is covered by the safety inspection. My reading of the statute is no; all that matters is that it works (and oh boy it does).

EDIT: I'll probably side-step the problem and register it as a classic. It's my third car, so the 1 day a week restriction is fine.

In reply to Kylini :

Wow. The state REALLY wants to keep everybody on their toes. 

I'll ask Matt, but I don't know if he'll know. 

Obd2 cars that dont get scanned at inspection.. Then why even bother with the inspections in the first place. 

In reply to RevRico :

It's incredibly dumb. I could live one county over in any of 3 directions and not have ANY emissions inspections. Or I could buy a diesel and roll coal on everyone's ass and never have to go through emissions. Which is incredibly ironic because the ostensible reason air quality in this area is supposedly as bad as Houston's is the heavy truck traffic.

That said, for us it's 96+= OBDII scan, 95 and earlier visual, which is a hell of a lot better than getting an actual sniffer test of any sort, so it could be worse. 

Furious_E said:

In reply to Blaise :

Because it's just as easy to do this the legal way as it is to say berkeley it. 

Yes.  The ex's parents have a couple of minimally driven vehicles registered at the PA property.  Neither get driven more than 5000 miles per year.  But they still have to get annual safety inspection.

The difference between Classic and Antique registration is somewhat odd.  15 years vs. 25 years.  I doubt anyone registered for Classic anymore. 

As mentioned, the photo requirement was dropped. Annoyingly, right after I sold my cursed E30 - which wouldn't pass emissions and therefore was illegal for the entire time I owned it.  Had I been able to get Antique tags for it, I might have kept it (probably not...).

The main reason for keeping a car legal is even though you are unlikely to get stopped specifically for expired or missing stickers in an old car, if you get stopped for something else the cop may really pile on the citations.  I remember getting stopped a few years ago for a minor violation. The first thing the trooper looked at was my inspection stickers (but oddly didn't mention the expired tag sticker, which has thankfully been dropped).

In reply to Ian F :

Yea they've always checked my stickers every time I've been pulled over. Given how loud the RX7 is - long tube headers, no cats, and a single Magnaflow 12" straight through race muffler - the odds of it attracting unwanted attention are decent .

I actually did get stopped last fall explicitly because the cop was driving the opposite direction and thought he saw I had expired stickers on the Jeep (in actuality he had mistakenly read the '18' as '16' so I was quickly let go.) I've also gone for months on expired stickers and never had an issue. Hell, I think my bike has only been inspected once since I bought it almost 5 years ago. But again, why risk it when I can just as easily be legal?