Philosophical Thoughts

I find myself thinking about what makes a "CAR GUY" an actual "CAR GUY"... I am coming from a situation where I come from a family line of not car people. Heck even my wife has the mindset of a car is only meant to go from point A to B. I find it terribly hard to talk to my wife about cars period. She actually rolls her eyes or glazes over when I start to talk cars. I watch Youtube videos about people that have always wanted a particular car. For instance Magnus Walker; he builds amazing early years Porsche 911 cars and to hear him talk passionately about the car just has me thinking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZlRFsRG6K0

I read about people on this site and I get a true feeling of this place is for "CAR GUYS" So I have to ask; what is it that makes you passionate about cars for the people on this site?

I mean is it the drive? the way it makes you feel behind the wheel of a particular car? or is it creating a piece of art for others to admire?

I myself have been through a long string of project cars that I thought were me, but the honest truth is that they were nothing like me. What gets my blood boiling for cars is Loud Lumpy idles of Old 1960s or even 1970s sports cars. I just realized the car that has my eye right now is the Opel GT (AKA Baby Corvette)...

I apologize for the thread being all over the place, but I just needed to get my thoughts into a thread that would actually be read by real people that understand the madness.

For me it's the drive. I'm more of a driving guy than a car guy. To me the car is a big expensive piece of sports equipment.

For me its the passion the automobile instills. A car can be a beautiful piece of art that makes you stare in wonder. It can be an engineering masterpiece, mechanical perfection. What really makes the automobile wonderful however is you as an enthusiast can tinker, modify, improve on what it already is or was and then take it for a drive to see how you may have improved it or not.

For me it is making the car I want into the car I crave; making Duke's 67 LeMans into a GT/Pro Touring car, taking my 66 Bonneville and turning it into a diesel tow rig.

My best friend from high school was more about driving. It didn't matter what he had (for a while it was a K-car), he enjoyed driving it in a sporty fashion; knowing its limits and driving it. Kinda like putting a star in a reasonably priced car and taking it around hammerhead. There was nothing about the car that was sporty, just he liked to drive whatever it was in a motorsports kind of way. He also loved keeping it clean, trying new detailing products, and tinkering with it. Definitely a car guy, but not in a competitive way.

When you go to junkyards with ZERO intention of buying anything. When you will check out the forklift at Home Depot. When you search "minivan burnout" on YouTube. When you go to the Cranberry Festival (Carver, MA) just to see the steam engines running. When you park near the road after grabbing your iced coffee so you can watch the cars drive by. When you can tell certain makes by the sound of the starter or exhaust (Mopar starters and 5.0 Mustangs from a distance away). When you think there's not one single vehicle on the road that you wouldn't like to practice rallying with (vans, wagons, suvs, et al). When your little kids come home and tell you about the car they saw that day. When your 3 y/o can tell you what the logo you draw on his magnetic drawing board whether it's Toyota, Saturn, Subaru, Chevy bow tie etc.

There are as many types of car guys as there are cars. For each, their "car motivation factor" will be somewhat different, but I believe that if cars speak to your soul, you are a "car guy".

I love the "driving whatever you got in a sporty manner" mindset, and I suppose this describes me well. Of course, not all road conditions merit a sporty drive, so that doesn't happen a lot. I like to tinker on my cars and I enjoy keeping them clean. I tend to prefer sleepers over trailer queens, and I prefer subtle mods over a pimped ride. I haven't owned a lot of cars, but I have owned a lot of different types: vans, trucks, sporty compacts. I used to own a minivan that would burn rubber and was an absolute blast to drive, even if it was an automatic.

I guess my passion for cars comes from the way that a particular car speaks to me, and also how well it translates what I want to the road during the drive.

I enjoy improving things. Either making them better than they were before or as good as they can be with the resources available.

But more than that is the drive. Whether it's crushing a heavy snow in 4WD, bansaing the tail of the dragon, getting the perfect run in autocross, or just the push of accelerating hard in 2nd during the morning commute. Driving is cool.

I enjoy the looks of older cars, the personality. Drag racing is the only motorsport ive participated in and it was always about finding a cheap way to pick up time between each weekend. I love the engineering behind pourpose built cars, seeing how people make there cars do what they want them to do. Be it drag racing, rally or drifting. I also enjoy just an afternoon cruise, maybe some hoonage here and there. I just feel at home behind the wheel of old cars. I like the sound and smell of old carbed motors.

I love this post and this board. It gives me warm fuzzies. The passion for cars is a many splendoured thing, it seems.

I get the most enjoyment out of driving. It doesn't even have to be at or near the limit, or even really pushing it hard. Just driving.

But, there is a feeling of being just on the edge of adhesion and the car is dancing around under you and you're peddling it, or trail braking it deep into an apex and the car floats in and just becomes a part of you and everything happens instinctively, without even thinking, and you are 100% focused on what's coming up, everything else just disappears. That is magical. That is where life happens.

Of course I get almost as much enjoyment out of working on cars. Whether it is doing bodywork and paint, or suspension work, or tuning an engine, or even just routine maintenance, keeping it in it's peak condition at all times.

I love the instant gratification that comes from detailing a car, I can just sit back and look at he gleaming paint with complete satisfaction after a long day working on it.

I get it. I can't explain it to people who don't. I'm just happy I'm not the only one.

It's extremely difficult to define, probably because the reasons vary so much car to car, and overlap significantly. As an anthropologist i find myself talking about this kind of thing a lot. People are bound to objects in ways that other creatures are not. We invest time and effort creating or acquiring certain things, and those things end up in many ways representing choices, restrictions, identity, relationships, and much more. You say "they were nothing like me" but you don't define who you are, except that those cars aren't it. My cars represent who I am, and they probably do perfectly. And yet, I can't put into words, in any universally applicable way, what I like in a car and what I don't.

I like being in control of everything, I hate extra features or distractions that takes away from driving, and i don't like things that are flashy. That being said, I love my old '87 E-150. It's loud, has an automatic transmission, no steering feel beyond the whole column shaking when i hit bumps, and a saggy brake pedal. It has electric seats, interior lights galore, and stripes painted all over it. It doesn't fit at all why I love my RX8, and yet i want to take both of them for a drive right now.

ninja edit: upon further reflection, I think using cars has a lot to do with it. I love my van not because it is a terrible driver's car, but because i have years of memories using it in some very exciting ways. It isn't the van, it's what I did with/in the van (no, not that. stop thinking that).

I like machines. Doesn't have to be cars. Could be trains or motorcycles or tractors or cement mixers. Cars are accessible and I use them every day. Because I interact with them more I think about them more. How they work. Why they break. How to make them better. Which ones I want to be driving instead.

Driving fast is a multi sensory rush but it's also a precise and difficult (frustrating) skill to master. I'm not a good performance driver by any means but I enjoy working to improve. I find it to be more intellectual than the stick and ball sports I play.

Casual wrenching can be very relaxing. I like working with my hands and there aren't many things that are more satisfying than the "I fixed it" feeling that comes with torquing that final bolt and taking a successful test drive.

Cars in particular are a unique combination of beauty, function, and history. Some of my "favorite" cars are cars that have a good story behind their development like the Ford GT40.

mazdeuce wrote: I like machines. Doesn't have to be cars. Could be trains or motorcycles or tractors or cement mixers. Cars are accessible and I use them every day. Because I interact with them more I think about them more. How they work. Why they break. How to make them better. Which ones I want to be driving instead.

^this, partially. I love the simplicity of mechanical things yet the complexity they can become. The other part of it for me is the creative process. I get much less pleasure from a bought an paid for car than one I've built or customized. I buy the "appliance" cars that get me where I need to be (granted they are still fun) but the true joy is the challenge of building something unique to me

The reason why I asked this question is because I am trying to find out why I am so attracted to cars. I come from a family who were not car people at all. I knew more about cars at age 10 then my own father. Probably the best present that I ever received is a subscription to Hotrod Magazine when I was 9 years old. I used to spend hours upon hours reading the magazines eventually wearing them to the point where the first 3 pages were just gone. I explicitly remember a 1954 chevy pickup truck that was black with a camel leather tonneau cover. The thing was chopped/frenched in every way imaginable. I just loved that truck and spent hours dreaming about building my own truck that way.

I grew up around trucks and have always loved trucks, but I also love autocross and track days. The combination of such never really went well. I used to own a 2001 Subaru Impreza 2.5Rs that I did some mods on. Many people thought it sounded like a 1L Race bike due to how loud it was and I loved it!

I am kind of envious of people who are passionate about specific cars. I just cannot figure out what car would be perfect for me. I have been a Subaru guy for quite some time now, but mine was a complete money pit honestly. I have new thoughts about a Honda civic but that feels like it should be wrong. I have never driven one, but never really liked them as well.

I then am waffling the idea of a Pro-Touring esk type build, but I do believe that it will be hard to build on a budget. It will depend on the type of car and the accessibility of parts. To me the older cars seem to have character compared to newer cars. With all of the nannies that they put on cars today, even the worst drivers seem like race car drivers. I really love the 1960s era sports cars like the Jaguars, the Ferraris, Ford GT40, hell even the Corvette! I even wanted a 1969 to 1971 Corvette, but after looking for one cheap they were just out of my price range. One Saturday I was driving around with my father when we came up on two little sports cars on the side of the road. I did not know what they were so we stopped, and un-benounced to me they were Opel GTs. Kind of rough, but beautiful in every way. I explicitly thought about how much they looked like a Corvette but they were smaller.

I am a type of guy that enjoys improving on existing platforms. Once I have improved on the platform, I like to then reap the benefits of said improvement. So maybe I am a builder first and then a driver...

ebonyandivory wrote: When you go to junkyards with ZERO intention of buying anything. When you will check out the forklift at Home Depot. When you search "minivan burnout" on YouTube. When you go to the Cranberry Festival (Carver, MA) just to see the steam engines running. When you park near the road after grabbing your iced coffee so you can watch the cars drive by. When you can tell certain makes by the sound of the starter or exhaust (Mopar starters and 5.0 Mustangs from a distance away). When you think there's not one single vehicle on the road that you wouldn't like to practice rallying with (vans, wagons, suvs, et al). When your little kids come home and tell you about the car they saw that day. When your 3 y/o can tell you what the logo you draw on his magnetic drawing board whether it's Toyota, Saturn, Subaru, Chevy bow tie etc.

You stole that right out of my head. Well summarized indeed!

I'm definitely a driver more than a builder. I will not do a non-runner. If I have a car that blows up, it goes away cheap (like my Corvette a couple years ago). I work on them to keep them running and so that I can get more car for less dollar.

When I get bored with a car, I don't start shopping for exhausts and super chargers and wheels and short throw shifters. I start shopping to replace that car.

For me, it really is about the machine itself and taking a car as fast as I can make it go. I was at a track weekend at Gingerman and when my Miata E36 M3 the bed, I rented a Focus, stopped on the way back to the track at Autozone and bought four sets of front pads, and zoomed that little rental car around the track for the next day and a half. I think I did okay because I clicked off laps within two tenths from start to finish. That is what excites me.

The detailing part can be fun but that isn't a draw, either. I'm a racer, not a polisher. But I'm also a racer, not a tinkerer. That means that I need to be able to drive my cars to work when I want. No track-only cars. I had a 911 club racer that was fun on the track but not legal for the street. I had that car for about ten weeks before I sold it. I just got bored with it because I couldn't just go and drive it.

I'm in it for the driving part.

I get more of a rush thrashing in the pits than I do driving. My brain craves problem solving and either building or working in the pits is more than enough for me. Sure I love to drive, but I'm just as happy working between runs trying to squeeze out another .1 no matter who the driver is.

GameboyRMH wrote: For me it's the drive. I'm more of a driving guy than a car guy. To me the car is a big expensive piece of sports equipment.

I didn't realize it until you said it, but this is pretty close to my philosophy, too.

I'm full of contradictions. I'm definitely in it for the drive. I really don't like wrenching, but I'm good at it and can't afford to pay someone else to do it. Besides, where are you gonna find someone you can trust to do it right? But I also enjoy being able to say, "Yeah, I built that." I like having my car ogled at car shows or cruise-ins, and I like standing around in parking lots at night talking to guys about cars. Most of my friends have been met through automotive pursuits, and are car guys. I'm also pretty loyal to my car. When I destroyed the frame on my first (very rusty) Fairmont at the autocross, I wasn't whole again until I had another Fairmont at the autocross. There are other cars I'd love to drive, but nothing is worth getting rid of the Fairmont for. I've been getting more into open track lately, and there are several cars that would make better track beasts, but, at this point, I derive more enjoyment by being "The Guy that Drives The Fairmont" than actually going fast. That's not to say I don't make my Fairmont as fast as I can afford to. After all that, though, I still have a ton of respect for other car guys, and the cars they drive. Every once in a while, you'll find an shiny happy person that thinks that your car ain't E36 M3 because it's not a Porsche, Corvette, or even a Honda. Now, those guys are annoying. And those guys are why you drive a sleeper. ;)

I'm a car guy because if I was a bike guy I would hurt myself.

To me, car guys appreciate good craftsmanship when they see it, even if it isn't their cup of tea. I have just as much fun at fly-ins, tractor shows, and hit-and-miss engine displays at the fair.

I've got it bad. I've had it since I was maybe 3 years old and had a stack of my dad's copies of Road & Track and Sports Car. Fast forward 53 years and I've got all manner of interesting cars that I built and maintain and successfully campaign an SCCA P2 class sports racer w/ many wins, a couple track records and a championship. I instruct HPDE and race schools.

So last Monday I was an instructor at a track day organized by a very high end dealer of a British limited production supercar. There were about 25 people who own very, very expensive cars there - V-12 Astons, McLarens, Ferrari 458 Italias, Bentleys, AMG Benzes, Porsche 911 Turbos.

None of them, as far as I saw, had the most remote understanding of the capability of their vehicles with regard to braking and lateral grip. A few could mash the pedal in a straight line, but were braking so lightly as to have to lift mid-straight.

They're guys who own cars that cost more that most people's houses. And they were at a track day. But I'd decline calling them "car guys". And surely not "drivers".

I think it also changes with age. When I was a younger man, I took joy and pride from keeping the cheapest beaters alive and serviceable. Sure, I also did it because I was broke, but realistically, I could have driven a much nicer car for much longer, with all I spent buying and fixing beaters. But it was fun.

Now I'm over 50, and my perspective has changed. What I like now is the freedom that a decent but boring car gives me. A couple months ago, I decided I wanted to check out Santa Fe. So I hopped in the car and drove 600 miles, without a second thought. In my beater days, I wanted to do that, but didn't want to deal with the uncertainty of an en route breakdown.

So now I drive boring, practical, reliable cars. Does this make me less of a "car guy"? Heck no! I live vicariously through forums like this and blogs, and other websites. I have an old Honda C70 that sometimes runs and sometimes doesn't, but it's there if the mood for tinkering strikes me.

Nope, because for me the freedom has always been what it's about.

It all started with bicycles. I was no longer restricted to the neighborhood! I could actually cover some distance in an hour. I used to love riding to the mall 5ish miles away on the bike trails around my town.

My first car was almost a 1989 MR2, supercharged I think. I bought a 1991 Mercury Capri instead, because it was a stick shift too, the top went down, I could fit my skis in it, and it had a back seat. I got in to racing later, in college, when I wished I had the MR2 but I'll never forget the long drives top down under the stars.

Motorcycles came next, taking me places I could only dream of in a car for way less money.

My poor wife vaguely gets it, but really just puts up with it. She is slowly seeing why I want a work truck, a daily driver, and a power sports toy or three. If we move somewhere without a real winter, I'll ditch the snowmobiles.

snailmont5oh wrote: I'm full of contradictions. I'm definitely in it for the drive. I really don't like wrenching, but I'm good at it and can't afford to pay someone else to do it. Besides, where are you gonna find someone you can trust to do it right? But I also enjoy being able to say, "Yeah, I built that." I like having my car ogled at car shows or cruise-ins, and I like standing around in parking lots at night talking to guys about cars. Most of my friends have been met through automotive pursuits, and are car guys. I'm also pretty loyal to my car. When I destroyed the frame on my first (very rusty) Fairmont at the autocross, I wasn't whole again until I had another Fairmont at the autocross. There are other cars I'd love to drive, but nothing is worth getting rid of the Fairmont for. I've been getting more into open track lately, and there are several cars that would make better track beasts, but, at this point, I derive more enjoyment by being "The Guy that Drives The Fairmont" than actually going fast. That's not to say I don't make my Fairmont as fast as I can afford to. After all that, though, I still have a ton of respect for other car guys, and the cars they drive. Every once in a while, you'll find an shiny happy person that thinks that your car ain't E36 M3 because it's not a Porsche, Corvette, or even a Honda. Now, those guys are annoying. And those guys are why you drive a sleeper. ;)

This is me. It's nice to know there are other weirdo's out there too