Poor design

jrw1621 wrote: Here is the very well written and documented 23 page DIY guide for removing the AC Evaporator on a Volvo 850. Yeah, 23 pages! http://www.woodjoiner.com/volvo/

That's just plain outrageous

Not necessarily the toughest thing to accomplish, but weren't the brake rotors on early 90's accords pressed onto the spindles, as opposed to just slide on & off... never understood the reason why honda decided on that design.

This thread was misnamed. It should have been These are the cars to never buy.

87 Lincoln Town Car. The water pump is bolted to the front of the engine like any V8 should be. Unfortunately some idiot decided to bolt every accessory on top of it. The alternator, power steering pump, A/C compressor, smog pump and all of the brackets that hold them have to be removed before you even get to the water pump. What could have been a 20 minute job turns into hours in a hurry.

dinger wrote: Oil filter on 90's Ford Windstars. Right next to the catalytic converter for the front 3 cyls? Really?

You're cursing my wife's favorite cars. Two of them. She drives 50k a year, easy. I've changed a lot of these oil filters. Trick? A 15"extension on my 3/8 drive socket gets the filter loose and out once you know the trick. Ya just have to hold your mouth right!

Toyman01 wrote: This thread was misnamed. It should have been These are the cars to never buy. 87 Lincoln Town Car. The water pump is bolted to the front of the engine like any V8 should be. Unfortunately some idiot decided to bolt every accessory on top of it. The alternator, power steering pump, A/C compressor, smog pump and all of the brackets that hold them have to be removed before you even get to the water pump. What could have been a 20 minute job turns into hours in a hurry.

Ah, come on! Every Windsor engine was like that! You should have changed that waterpump on a 302 in a '76 Maverick (engine compartment about 2/3 the size) in a parking lot in February in Colorado on a day that started at -20 and got up to 0. That was fun!

paul wrote: Not necessarily the toughest thing to accomplish, but weren't the brake rotors on early 90's accords pressed onto the spindles, as opposed to just slide on & off... never understood the reason why honda decided on that design.

A lot of older 3/4 and 1 ton trucks with full floating axles have the drum pressed on to the hub. To remove the drum for turning or to replace the shoes, you have to pull the axles out.

fast_eddie_72 wrote: Water pump on an MR2 is no fun. I took the starter off my wife's '98 4Runner in about 20 minutes. Several hours later I had it towed to a mechanic because I couldn't figure out any way to get it out of the engine bay.

Remove the front skid plate and the front steering link, then fish the starter out through the front of the truck. BTDT.

paul wrote: Not necessarily the toughest thing to accomplish, but weren't the brake rotors on early 90's accords pressed onto the spindles, as opposed to just slide on & off... never understood the reason why honda decided on that design.

i just went through all that with my GF's 92 accord.

theyre not pressed on, but theyre 'inboard' meaning they bolt onto the BACK of the wheel hub drive flange. ideally you simply unbolt the 4 12pt 12mm bolts that hold the wheel bearing in the spindle and with it apart the disk slides over the bearing case.
but when you are dealing with a 19 year old new england car that's only had its rotors turned and the 12pt bolts are essentially pre-rounded, it becomes HORRID. 2 new wheel bearings, 16 new honda bolts (over $50), and 2 awful days later i had replaced the rotors. now a hydraulic press would have sped up a few steps, and i found out later that you can get acura 2.2CL front brake parts that fit and use outboard brakes for future jobs, but it was one of the most frustrating jobs ive ever done on any car.... especially when it really didnt need to be complicated.

replacing my Trailblazer SS's exhaust manifold bolts and spark plugs was pretty terrible too, mostly due to access, though im sure i could do them much faster now.

pstrbrc wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: This thread was misnamed. It should have been These are the cars to never buy. 87 Lincoln Town Car. The water pump is bolted to the front of the engine like any V8 should be. Unfortunately some idiot decided to bolt every accessory on top of it. The alternator, power steering pump, A/C compressor, smog pump and all of the brackets that hold them have to be removed before you even get to the water pump. What could have been a 20 minute job turns into hours in a hurry.

You sir have been in the trenches, the cold snowy wet trenches, live rounds screaming fractions from you head, searching for that lost socket in the snow. Welcome. Ah, come on! Every Windsor engine was like that! You should have changed that waterpump on a 302 in a '76 Maverick (engine compartment about 2/3 the size) in a parking lot in February in Colorado on a day that started at -20 and got up to 0. That was fun!

Chrissakes, the worst I EVER did was a Pinto heater core. There is a special very blue hot place in hell for the cheap bean counter/lazy engineer combo which came up with that one.

Not far behind: Fiat X1/9 master cylinders. AAAAAAUUUUUUGGGHHHHH. Particularly when the damn plastic pedal pivot bushing gets soaked with brake fluid, swells and rusts to the pedal pivot bolt. Exxie owners know what I am talking about. Dammit.

I once did a water pump in a 1971 Mustang 302 V8 with hang on A/C. Never seen so damn many spacers made of pipe. They are all quite close in length, if you don't mark them as they come off you will spend all Sunday afternoon test fitting the friggin' things back and forth, back and forth...

Engine swaps: My A12 Datsun powered Spitfire required that the engine be loosened, raised about 4" and pulled forward about 6" to get the driveshaft out. Or, you could drop the diff (I hear Spitfire owners the world over screaming in pain).

fast_eddie_72 wrote: Water pump on an MR2 is no fun.

Ha, here is one I have actually done. It wasn't so bad, maybe 5 hours with 2 hands on deck.

jrw1621 wrote: Here is the very well written and documented 23 page DIY guide for removing the AC Evaporator on a Volvo 850. Yeah, 23 pages! http://www.woodjoiner.com/volvo/

I love my 1995 855- pulls like a rabid mule with 180k on it and uses 1/2 a quart every 3k just like it did at 80k. But the evaporator is shot and... I am not sure I am willing to pay someone to go through that hell even if they agree to it. And there is absolutely no way I am ever going to enter that morass.

heh, the heater core is the only thing that didn't have to be replaced on my old MKIII...

Older Subie alts. LOVED them. Sub 5 min. job with an air ratchet, slightly longer with hand tools.

Anything on the GM 3100. Nothing has filled me with more HATE.

Conversion vans. Spending 1/2 hour removing extra trim inorder to open the dog house...

Snrub wrote:

Brett_Murphy wrote: FC RX-7 heater cores are pretty easy.

What about the 90 degree coolant hose on the upper intake of TIIs? Now THAT is a stupid design.

If I'm remembering the same one you're talking about, I just rerouted both ends of that, since the direction of the flow into the intake didn't matter. I could then remove them without having to even take off the intercooler.

slefain wrote: How about a $10,000 coolant leak? http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/411578/all-german-auto-custom-cooling-pipe-saves-745-%28n62%29-owner-thousands-in-repairs

There is something seriously wrong with the engineering when a $2 seal costs $10,000 to get to. And if there truly is no other solution, put in a berkeleying $10 seal from the outset that will last 40 years.

WilberM3 wrote: theyre not pressed on, but theyre 'inboard' meaning they bolt onto the BACK of the wheel hub drive flange. ideally you simply unbolt the 4 12pt 12mm bolts that hold the wheel bearing in the spindle and with it apart the disk slides over the bearing case. but when you are dealing with a 19 year old new england car that's only had its rotors turned and the 12pt bolts are essentially pre-rounded, it becomes HORRID. 2 new wheel bearings, 16 new honda bolts (over $50), and 2 awful days later i had replaced the rotors. now a hydraulic press would have sped up a few steps,

You would think so. But I broke both a 12-ton and 20-ton press trying to remove my old Accord wagon's rotors from the spindles. I finally sweet talked a local alignment shop into using their 50-ton press to take the rotors off for me, and they still had a bear of a time with it. I also ended up with new wheel bearings and over a week into a stupid front brake replacement job. Ugh.

Shaun wrote:

DILYSI Dave wrote: Clever part. You could also cut the new pipe in half, install the two halves, and then use a silicon coupler between them.

Would the silicone couple provide the proper alignment? If so, would it do it over time? Would a silicone coupler seat the the seals and keep them there? If so, would it do it over time? Is there room for a coupler? I'm glad you thought this all through. Looks like a cool product to me.

No need to get panties in a wad. I said it was a cool product. But yes, I'm quite sure a stock part, cut and coupled, would work just fine.

Ford 2.3L Duratec PZEV in a Focus. You can't replace the air filter by design. According to Ford, you are supposed to replace the entire inlet airbox at 100,000 miles. I decided to just replace it with an aftermarket intake.

I had to use a 15" extension on my ratchet and in a couple spots had to use a wrench with only about 15 degrees of movement. All because I didn't want to remove the drivers side fender liner and front bumper cover, which involves removing both headlights and the radiator shroud. Took 2.5 hours to get the upper and lower airbox out. It was 15 minutes to put the aftermarket snorkel in including swapping over the MAF.

Wally wrote: For most cars the heater core is the first part hung on the assembly line. The rest of the car is built around it.

Is there any car made since... oh...about 1970 that the heater core is easy to change?

spitfirebill wrote:

Wally wrote: For most cars the heater core is the first part hung on the assembly line. The rest of the car is built around it.

Is there any car made since... oh...about 1970 that the heater core is easy to change?

OH, yeah. AMC Pacer. Easiest thing to get to. Now, plug #6, seems to me it was ONLY easy when you had the heater plenum out!

Boy, reading all this makes me happy I have kept my nissan truck. I've done pretty much everything mentioned here except the heater core (and hope I never have to) and most were manageable.

I know, it's my own damn fault. But a P-38 Range Rover You have to spread the frame rails with a jack to change the transmission filter. HVAC blend doors buried deep in the dash...terrible, expensive, then they go bad again in a few years.

I still like the truck for some reason.

spitfirebill wrote:

Wally wrote: For most cars the heater core is the first part hung on the assembly line. The rest of the car is built around it.

Is there any car made since... oh...about 1970 that the heater core is easy to change?

1995 Caprice. I can have one in and out in an hour. I done 5 of them. (Stupid VatoZone crap!)

Welcome Comrade.