Porsche 996 alternative

I was thinking an xkr could be interesting,  then remembered the manual trans requirement.

Yup. Same issue for e60 m5 and m6 and Audi s6. Too many cool cars come auto only.

In reply to markwemple :

E60 m5 comes with 6spd manual too. And they aren't rare. I think the m6 6spd is rare though. 

Cotton said:

I was thinking an xkr could be interesting,  then remembered the manual trans requirement.

The XKR is a great car but does not have the agility and driver involvement that a 911 does.

 A 911 in a nice shade of bland

Check

Full leather makes it much nicer inside 

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Bonus if it has the sport steering wheel 

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Just know you will never find a 996 that is spec'd exactly how you would want it. 

Definitely true. I haven't looked into it much but it seems there were tons of options and it would be easy to paint yourself into a corner with desire for a particular spec. 

My old Lancer Evo VIII also met that description. In an HPDE Instructor Group setting, I could pass regular 996s all day long, but not GT3s (obviously). That was with a 100% stock car on street tires. Once you start modding, the sky’s the limit. For me, steering feel and ergonomics were better than the 996, shifting and braking quality were about the same, and suspension was a little worse (the 996 was more supple over rough roads). My Evo was also dead reliable over 60k miles of mixed street, track, and winter-beater use. Even the stock clutch lasted over 50k miles. Nothing went wrong ... until the DEALER put the wrong lube in the transfer case and killed it (they replaced it under warranty).

The only other car I’ve driven that comes close to the power/brakes/handling/prestige package of a 996 for about $20k would be a second-gen Lotus Esprit S4S with the turbo 4-banger. Not really suitable as a daily driver, though, because they have minimal trunk space. Feels a lot more special than a Porsche. 

 

I am totally on board with all of this and if i'd seen an Esprit first for the same money i'd have bought it. I don't really need the practicality of the Porsche, but it does make it a uniquely attractive option for some. I think the EVO 8 is an exceptional car. When i think about cars i would buy and leave completely alone because it was already great, EVO 8 comes to mind. My 996 i still want to tinker with.

The C5 had a crap interior.  But so did the E36, IMO.   

At the risk of sounding like im just dumping on those cars, i agree. Interiors are a big reason why i've never fallen for the e36 (e46 is a different story) and if you compare the seats in my 19 y/o 911 to a typical c5's seats, it's almost laughable to think that said comparison was prompted by a question about '911 interior quality'. My whole interior looks pretty dang good after two decades. The C6 had a 'better' interior than the c5, but i always say that the C5 interior reminds me of a Pontiac Bonneville interior in a good way, but the C6 reminds me of an Impala interior in a bad way. I know that doesn't make sense to anyone but me. 

For the record, i think e46 m3s and 370z's are perfectly good suggestions for a 996 alternative. I think there are plenty of good alternatives to a 996 as long as you haven't bought a 996. If you're starting at  996 ownership and trying to find something 'enough better' at the same price point to make a jump.. that's tough. For me personally i can't picture a straight trade (no possible profit involved) to anything mentioned in this thread. But thats a 996 owner problem. For prospective buyers, there's a pretty good swath of options that could potentially make that buyer very happy. 

nderwater said:

Cotton said:

I was thinking an xkr could be interesting,  then remembered the manual trans requirement.

The XKR is a great car but does not have the agility and driver involvement that a 911 does.

Yeah I know,  I have 3 911s....was just thinking outside the box a little since there seem to be so few options.  I also thought well used db9,   but cheapest I could find was low 30s.

You’re going to have a hard time “upgrading” for the same money. A 987 Cayman S is probably as close as you can get. Yes it’s a “lower” model, it would depreciate a bit more, and it doesn’t have rear seats. They even seem to handicap the rear suspension a bit, not just the motor. But it’s a whole generation newer and nicer with a mid-rear engine that just turns incredibly well. I think it would be a delight to drive. 

If that doesn’t sound better I’d enjoy the 996 now and buy a 997 when you’re ready to throw in some money for an upgrade. 

Now if you want to move sideways into a car with different character, that’s much easier. But you’d have to decide what you want to get and what you’re willing to give up. 

In reply to yupididit :

Yeah, but they seem to command a serious premium, like near 30k vs sub 20 for autos.

In reply to ace37 :

Not necessarily upgrading. More of a try something different. I've been doing this for years and always end up back in a 911. It may just be that I'm a 911 guy.

For what it's worth I was playing the same mental gymnastics about 6 months ago.  Looking for a great track car that I could do duty as a part-time driver. 

Elises, esprits, porsches....  I didn't want a vette because, well, it's a vette. 

I ended up finding a good deal on a c6 z06 and it makes me happy just thinking about driving it.  I wouldn't rule it out. 

There was a very well-built example that just sold for $28k on BaT not too long ago.  That is an absolute steal but it shows that there are deals to be found.  

Bottom line: don't knock it til you've tried it!

I haven't driven a Z06 but have driven a base model c6. Didn't like it. A wierd thing is, for example, I like the driving experience of a 240z but almost hate to drive a 280z. I prefer a Fiat 124 spider to an Alfa spider and prefer both to a Miata (1st gen anyway). Everyone has things they like and don't like. The best part of early 911s is the LACK of power steering, lack of power brakes, lack of unnecessary "creature comforts."

markwemple said:

In reply to ace37 :

Not necessarily upgrading. More of a try something different. I've been doing this for years and always end up back in a 911. It may just be that I'm a 911 guy.

Do you have space to just add another car? Maybe something that is both inexpensive and a pure toy might do it? 

I bought a cheap Boxster as a race car project (alongside the 911) and for now that’s scratching the itch quite well.

If you’d be safe enough and your SO/family is onboard, some type of motorcycle might be a fun and rather different gearhead toy that you could have alongside the car. They’re also small garage friendly. 

Vigo said:

Just know you will never find a 996 that is spec'd exactly how you would want it. 

Definitely true. I haven't looked into it much but it seems there were tons of options and it would be easy to paint yourself into a corner with desire for a particular spec. 

Porsche's are probably the cheapest and highest production volume cars for which nearly unlimited personalization is possible.  They do very few option packages, which make mass production far cheaper and easier, leaving the vast majority of options individually selectable.  As a result, it's distinctly possible that no two identical cars rolled off the assembly line in any given year.

Z4M coupe.  All of the e46 M3 goodness but in a smaller, lighter, stiffer, sexier body.  They are no longer depreciating.  Lots of fun to drive, manual only, last of the real analog BMWs to follow the original M philosophy with the real LSD, hydraulic steering instead of electric, no bunch of setting for everything, and a screaming beast of an I6 motor.  

In reply to ace37 :

I own several bikes. My favorite is my 97 916.

1999-2000 M Coupe.  It had the older S52 engine, but would still move out pretty well.  Add some handling mods to help tame the chassis and you are good.  Of course, finding a decent one for 996 money might be difficult nowadays.

In reply to JoeTR6 :

Pretty much impossible

Same with the Esprit. Last time I looked (couple of years ago) there were half a dozen on eBay for $20k. Looks like they’re in the $35-40k ballpark these days.

Seems Z3 MCoupe prices have been rising as well, especially for S54 cars. The Z4 MCoupe is probably the best bang-for-your-buck in M Cars these days. 

markwemple said:

In reply to JoeTR6 :

Pretty much impossible

I sold mine with 55k miles in 2006 for $17k.  Wish I had that one back.

Double that now. Easily.

Oh, another one of these threads. 

'I like X car, but don't want X car. So tell me what the best alternative to X car is. Now before  you give me your ideas, I'm going to rule out all the cars that are the best alternatives to X car just because'.  

And GO!

No, Dr. In this instance you're wrong. My stable is too large, and pockets too shallow. Now if you said bored, maybe. (although I hope not). Like someone else said, we all want a change of pace every once in a while. Right?

markwemple said:

No, Dr. In this instance you're wrong. My stable is too large, and pockets too shallow. Now if you said bored, maybe. (although I hope not). Like someone else said, we all want a change of pace every once in a while. Right?

But you make blanket statements ruling out just about everything. No ricers (since no clarification given, so all asian?), no 'vette, no American V8, no Merc V8....and GO!

SO you're saying by eliminating boy racers, american v8s and merc v8s, there are no options? Surprisingly, there have been several good suggestions (and I mean not surprisingly), some I hadn't thought of and a couple I really wish were in my price range, like the M coupe.

I also don't mean for this to be some sort of fight. It was an honest question with limitations based on desires and preferences.