In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
Airbags in the seats.
Might swap with some other Toyota seats, maybe. No idea.
Being that the Prius is small and non electric might prohibit swapping in some big, electric, multi adjustable seats from a Lexus LS460 or similar. Starting with an Avalon Hybrid (rated for 40 mpg) might be the answer but likely more expensive.
Gen2 Prius Buyers Guide
About a year ago, Pete G wrote me an email saying he was going to consider a Gen2 Prius and what should he look for. In response I wrote him a buyers guide. Since then, the same email has been forwarded around the GRM-sphere but I had never gotten around to posting that to the board. This thread seems like a good place for it...
Gen 1: 2001-2003
Gen 2: 2004-2009
Gen 3: 2010-2015
Don't buy a Gen1. These are easiest to spot because they are sedans with trunk. The Gen2's are hatch back. The Gen2s are the sweet spot for value. The Gen1s were sold in small numbers and the batteries are different/inferior. Really, the #1 reason to not buy a Gen1 is because Gen2s are so much better and so much more plentiful. Over the model years of 04-09 combined more than 1 million Gen2s were sold. Parts are plentiful
Gen3's (2010 to 2015) are considered by many to be a better car being both a little larger and getting a little better mpg (rated for 50 mpg) but.. The Gen3 is a 1.8L and the Gen2 is a 1.5L. That 1.8l is known for common head gasket issues and burning oil once over 200k miles. The 1.5L has neither of these problems. Go out to car-part.com in your area and you will see that a low mileage replacement engine for a Gen3 cost $1,200-$1,500. For a Gen2, a low mileage replacement engine costs $300-$400...really. It's just supply and demand. There is no demand for Gen2 engines because they never blow but the supply of them from cars getting taken off the road for accidents is high.
There is no bad year for Gen2's but the '06 and newer are slightly better. I have two '04's, one '07 and one '08. The '06 got a slight update on interior. A crinkle finish to dashboard/doors rather than a smooth finish. The crinkle ages better...trivial.
The '04&'05 have a funny quirk where the odometer will only go to 299,999 and no higher. That reminds me, my '04 will be rolling 200k this week. Maybe I'll some day see this quirk.
I have not experienced but the early years are known for the center stack lcd dying. Solution is to replace with lcd of '06 or newer, used unit. Cheap but a hassle.
The interior cloth remained the same and that cloth ages and cleans really well. It is far more durable that it looks like it would be. Leather was only offered on the highest trim from the factory. Many dealers offered and aftermarket leather for customers who expected it. Heated seats were not factory. Seats are manual on all trim levels, no height or lumbar adjustments. I find the seat to be comfortable.
Front brakes last 135k miles...really! At 200k, my rears are probably original and due for replacement. Nothing special about brake service other than you should disconnect the battery. Beyond that they are just normal disc brakes. Rear brakes are drum. Parts are cheap. I buy the high quality pads and just cheapo disks.
The tires are 15"ers. I buy Falken brand 65k mile rated tires and they cost me $75 each and that includes mounting. Moral of the story...tires are cheap.
What to look for:
Hybrid Battery: I use the Torque Pro app ($4.99) with free Prius software and a blue tooth dongle, specifically this $12 one: https://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Scanner-Android/dp/B00PJPHEBO/ref=pd_yo_rr_rp_2/138-1568574-8011438?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00PJPHEBO&pd_rd_r=dc16038f-98b2-4c98-b5d3-c3e0cfb7d6fa&pd_rd_w=wRQP9&pd_rd_wg=Ha0Mo&pf_rd_p=6c927ef5-6938-465b-8f66-e5683dae7ef8&pf_rd_r=R9DRC807V674C50RZX8Z&psc=1&refRID=R9DRC807V674C50RZX8Z
If you don't have the software, don't sweat it. These cars either do what they are supposed to or they don't. You can just take it for a drive. Watch the screen on the dashboard. As you apply throttle the gas engine will kick in. On this Gen the car decides itself if it is using battery or gas or both. The only input you have is throttle.
Struts tend to wear out for me about 130k. Loaded struts, Gabriels from Rock Auto are right about $100. There is a $30 version too. I don't remember labor costing that much. Pretty common strut assembly. rears were more for labor due to lots of truck/hatch trim removal to get to top of strut.
Front wheel bearings on these are pretty common for going bad. If done at a shop (who does mine) they book-out at 2.5 hours labor so at $100/hr that is $250 per side and then a $100 part. I replaced my first wheel bearing at about 125k. I bought it used but suspect the original.
Timing Chain! No problem with guides or other things. No belt to change. Not known for needing adjustment.
I have not had the issue but water pump is common. Not a complex water pump other than some coolant burping to make sure there is no air.
In general, they are not known for burning oil. I change my oil w/ synthetic at 10k intervals. I'm gonna be due this week as I roll 200k and I checked it over the weekend...not even down half a quart.
My mpg is a pretty constant 42 mpg. I do not hyper mill and I often drive 76 mph. If AC off (or heat off) I can see 50 mph but I do not even think about it and the car returns 42.
The AC is strong. The heat good.
My '07 has a 3.5mm jack (in glove box) and blue tooth but bt is calls only not music play. For music play I use the 3.5mm jack. My '04 does not have a 3.5mm and it otherwise has the better radio so my guess is they did not offer. Probably not until '06, maybe. A single din or dual din, aftermarket radio can be retrofitted
I just drive the damn things and they just keep delivering with very little effort.
Test Drive:
I am reminded of another thing. I have been driving these so long that I don't notice it any more but... These cars don't seem to coast. What I mean is most cars when you take your foot off the gas peddle they seem to coast a little. On these, it almost feels like a sticking caliper (which it is not.) However, with your foot off the gas they seem to loose momentum quickly. This seems counter intuitive to good mpg but the reality seems to be that the regenerative braking uses this "drag energy" to recharge the batteries. It seems odd initially so I just thought I would point it out.
Also, the goofy shift lever. On every other car, including things like a Camry Hybrid, when you move the shift lever to drive, the lever stays in the position known as drive. On these Prius you move the lever to D but then it springs back to the center position. Shift to R and the lever again springs to a center position. The only way to get a visual as to what gear you are in is to look at the dashboard screen, near the speedo to see what gear is illuminated. I swear, just different for the sake of being different. It's probably the one thing I would change. Again, it is a quirk more than a real problem.
You can pull down the complete dealer service repair history of any Toyota or Scion at https://www.toyota.com/owners
Set up a user name and password and it will reply back to you even on cars you don't own but are rather just shopping. Due to the perceived complexity of a hybrid car, I find a lot of Prius to be dealer serviced for everything. I bought on Prius that was a great deal, (even with 180k miles) because the previous owner was even buying tires from the dealership. It has been a great car.
This link will take you to original Prius Brochures if you want to see options offered for the year you are shopping. The option packages changed a bit over the years. Color and color codes by year. Note that '04 &'05 silver is slightly different from '06-'09 silver. Paint link
Dusterbd13-michael said:rslifkin said:All concerns about fixing a broken one aside, have you actually driven a Gen 2 Prius to see if you like it enough to be happy spending that much time in one? The newer Toyota hybrids drive pretty well, but personally, I absolutely hate SWMBO's Gen 2 Prius. As far as I'm concerned, if you ever have to work on it or drive it above 30 mph and outside of heavy traffic, it's a miserable piece of E36 M3. In so many ways, it's like they tried to build a good car, got 70% of the way there and just said "eh, good enough".
I have never driven a Prius. But rising gas prices, my dd mazda6 having horrible headlights despite all efforts, and automotive add have me looking.
Now im worried ill hate one. However, at the 2k price (scheduled to go see it tomorrow night if it's still there) i think i can flip it if i hate it.
I mean, it can't be worse than the geo metro, can it?
If you buy it and you hate it, give me a call.
I hate the way the prius drives. I really like the way the big toyota hybrids drive. the camry/avalon hybrid is so much nicer to drive than the prius.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
Looks like it's sold....was it to you?
If $2k silver is sold then maybe jump on this $3k blue.
John Welsh said:2009 (newest Gen2) w/ 133k miles asking $3k Is that one closer to you?
Claims to need hybrid battery but also says still driving which is contradictory to really needing a hybrid battery. More money but maybe less problems. Does not need a screen.
In reply to Woody (Forum Supportum) :
Nope. Had a family promise to keep tonight.
So, looks like im back to looking! Probably for the best, honestly. Need to drive a couple before jumping.
In reply to John Welsh :
I messaged him. Well see what he says. I like the color blue way better than silver, and its already tinted with fresh tires. That's worth a bit extra to me.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
Get the blue vin
I once got a Prius to trail brake oversteer. All I got to add.
Stampie said:I once got a Prius to trail brake oversteer. All I got to add.
I'm not shocked. SWMBO's is surprisingly not-understeery, probably because they're not as nose heavy as most FWD cars. If the steering were a little less bad and the brake / throttle behavior were better it might be kinda fun on a twisty road. But fighting with the brake behavior takes most of the fun right out of it.
Although I did just remember another complaint: SWMBO's Prius is a base model, so you can't disable the traction control. And the traction control is awful. In theory, it should be great (electric drive and 2 non-driven wheels for speed reference). But instead, if you get any wheelspin at all (at least when taking off from a stop), it just massively cuts power like a 90s GM.
rslifkin said:Stampie said:I once got a Prius to trail brake oversteer. All I got to add.
I'm not shocked. SWMBO's is surprisingly not-understeery, probably because they're not as nose heavy as most FWD cars. If the steering were a little less bad and the brake / throttle behavior were better it might be kinda fun on a twisty road. But fighting with the brake behavior takes most of the fun right out of it.
Although I did just remember another complaint: SWMBO's Prius is a base model, so you can't disable the traction control. And the traction control is awful. In theory, it should be great (electric drive and 2 non-driven wheels for speed reference). But instead, if you get any wheelspin at all (at least when taking off from a stop), it just massively cuts power like a 90s GM.
I drive a third gen company car, it handles reasonably well but as soon as things start to get fun the stability kicks in and kills it, it makes a beeping noise at the same time just to rub it in. There's no button to disable traction control but there is a similar pedal dance to the twins that puts it in maintenance mode, I've had to do that a couple of times to get up our snow covered driveway.
In reply to adam525i :
I forgot about that thing. The mid/late 2000s Toyota "beep when ABS or traction control kicks in" thing is infuriating. I'm not sure off hand if it can be disabled or not, but somehow it sticks in my head that SWMBO's Prius doesn't do that after I disabled the "beep when in reverse" feature.
In reply to rslifkin :
Yeah, apparently to disable the beep when in reverse thing in the third gen requires a trip to the dealer for them to plug into the car. A friend has a similar aged Camry Hybrid which does not do that, he couldn't understand why the Prius's do that and I didn't have an explanation for him.
Blue one is salvage title from up north. Nope.
And i think I need to get some seat time in one before i start hunting. Just to be certain.
I also kinda want a Prius v, but the ones around here are crackhead price even with salvage title.
And unless its one of us doing the salvage, im not messing with a salvage car anymore. Just not worth it to me these days.....
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
I agree on skipping the salvage title. The only way I'll do it is if I can get a decent idea of what the damage was, then crawl over the car with a fine tooth comb. If I can't find any evidence of damage, it's probably well enough repaired. If anything is even a hair off, time to walk.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
The part about being from the North is just as bad as the part about salvage. After all, if you live in the rust free Carolinas there's no reason to buy something "northern."
But, speaking of rust, I find these Prius to be pretty stout. They certainly rust less than similar aged Impalas and LeSabres that I have owned. No deteriorating rocker panels like a Ford Focus of similar vintage. No rear wheel well disappearance like Honda and Mazda of similar vintage.
Prius Vs (the stretched Gen3 sort of wagon) sure do command a real price premium, here too and everywhere I've looked.
In reply to John Welsh :
Agreed on the rust. I've seen a few Gen 2s around here with rusty rear wheel wells, but nothing terrible. SWMBO's has 1 spot on a rocker panel that's starting to bubble a little, but the rest of the car looks fine despite it having gone years without being washed before we met and having lived in various parts of upstate NY since new. I'd say they do rust, but not badly like some cars.
Dusterbd13-michael said:I also kinda want a Prius v, but the ones around here are crackhead price even with salvage title.
When I was last shopping (and ended up with the Mazda5), every Prius V I looked at looked like it had probably been someone's Uber/Lyft car, and even before the pandemic, prices were nuts.
Agree on the PriusV pricing being insane, even with mileage north of 300k!
I thought the gen 2 did have oil consumption issues. My wife's '08 uses a quart every 1000 miles, I thought that was bad until I read the owners manual, 1 quart every 600 miles is acceptable. Google says piston rings are a common cause, I replaced the pcv & put some sea foam in the oil to see if that helps.
There is nothing enjoyable about driving them, but its hard to beat the fuel economy for the price you can pick up a gen 2 for. We bought my wife's Prius 6 months ago because she had to drive longer distances for het job due to a move. Even with putting a new Toyota battery in it just recently I think we are still ahead on resale value.
In reply to Caperix :
Good point on oil consumption. I've been starting to monitor SWMBO's for that issue after noticing at one point that it was low. Haven't seen obvious consumption since I started watching it yet though.
Well, im going to look at a scruffy appearing 176k mile 05 this afternoon.
Cheap enough that if its issue free, and rust free, and i can lowball the fuy a bit, ill probably pick it up.
But mostly, the entire point of this trip is to see if i LIKE a second gen Prius. They fit the bill on paper, but don't know about reality.
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
I'll be interested to hear your toughts once you drive one. In my mind, they're in so many ways "almost good, but just not"
In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :
Post or directly send me a link, I'll see what I see.
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