Project car/3rd car ideas

Hello! First time poster, long time lurker!

So, a few months ago, I closed on a new house. Around the same time I also received a significant bump in pay that more than covered the cost of the new house. However, my new commute is considerably longer than it used to be and if at all possible, I prefer not to rack up miles on my 2013 Volkswagen Golf R. That, combined with a yearning for another project car after selling my old '90 Miata has led me to the idea of getting another project car.

Criteria for project car:

-Preferably under $5000. -It has to run! I can't stress this enough. Rolling shells won't help me much. -Reasonably sporty, or at least has the potential to be fun on the track with the proper modifications (within reason). -Better fuel economy than my AWD Golf R is a plus (I average about ~26-27mpg, with about 35% city & 65% highway driving), but not absolutely required. -Decent aftermarket support. Yes, that's very subjective, I know... I truly have no desire to modify / tinker with my Golf R; but the urge to play/modify cars is always there.

Basically, this vehicle would likely be driven to work 1 or 2 days a week to keep help miles off of the VW. It would also be expected to run the occasional track day or autoX and survive me tinkering with it.... The VW is AWD and is brilliant in the snow, so that's not a concern. I also have the [5-door] Golf R for hauling the little lady & kiddos around, so the number of seats is irrelevant (i.e. 2-seaters are fine). I would prefer RWD, but would consider FWD for the right vehicle.

Here's a few ideas that have popped into my head:

-1994-1997 NA or 1999-2000 NB Mazda Miata (I fit better in the early year NB's, before they changed the seats): lightweight, tons of potential, cheap aftermarket, RWD, ect. The biggest con is that at 6'2" 212 lbs (33" waist), I'm just a bit cramped in the Miata (mostly headroom with top up), which can be a little rough on longer commutes. I prefer the NB over the NA for a variety of reasons, but obviously they cost a bit more.

-EF (88-91) or EG (92-95) Honda Civic Hatchback or 88-91 Honda CRX: lightweight, huge aftermarket, great gas mileage, easy motor swap options in the future, ect. Biggest con: FWD.

-MK2 VW GTI: lightweight, decent aftermarket, "different" than traditional options and arguably has more "character" than a Civic. Cons: FWD & less reliable than other options.

-Nissan 240SX: middleweight (bordering on light), RWD, big aftermarket, I'll likely fit in one a bit better than some of the others mentioned. Cons: "mad tyte drift" crowd.. most of them have been thoroughly abused, ect.

-MK1 (AW11) Toyota MR2: lightweight, mid-engine RWD, more room than a Miata, decent fuel economy, also a more "unique" car- it looks like a Transformer! Cons: PITA to work on, smaller aftermarket than some of the others, higher potential for rust.

-MK2 (SW20) Toyota MR2 (preferably turbo): middle-weight, mid-engine RWD, roomier than some other cars mentioned, direct engine swap choices (i.e. V6 or 3SGTE into non-turbo). Cons: royal PITA to work on! Smaller aftermarket, ect. I used to own a '91 turbo many years ago and remember having a lot of fun in that car!

-E30 BMW 325i / 325is: loads of character! middle-weight, inline-6, Spec E30 classes, huge aftermarket, relatively inexpensive parts. Cons: finding one without rust or significant amount of abuse; being higher maintenance than others, ect.

-E36 BMW 325i(s) / 328i(s): best daily driver on the list, lots of torque / nice inline-6, big aftermarket, largest interior, 50/50 weight distribution, Spec E36 classes. Cons: fuel economy isn't quite as good as others, higher maintenance costs, more expensive consumables, heaviest car on the list.

-E36 BMW M3: Probably the most capable vehicle on the list (arguably), great motor, chassis, ect. Cons: Same as other E36 cars; likely most expensive to maintain. Most expensive vehicle on the list as well (generally).

In a nutshell, those are the vehicles I've come with. Yes, there's too many options.... which, isn't really a bad thing! Any other ideas that meet the criteria above, feel free to post them up!

At this point, I'm really leaning towards either another Miata (preferably a NB if I could find a clean one for the right price) or just hunkering down the cash for an E36 M3.

Thoughts? Experiences?

Thanks in advance!

-Brandon

Don't forget 1st & 2nd gen Rx-7s.

WonkoTheSane wrote: Don't forget 1st & 2nd gen Rx-7s.

Honestly, I've always been wary of rotaries... Nothing in particular against them, I'm just more familiar with tuning/working on piston motors. I suppose I can bring myself to do a bit of reading and keep them in mind.

Or just drive a healthy one. I find them addictive...

WonkoTheSane wrote: Don't forget 1st & 2nd gen Rx-7s.

+1 on this. If you want something you can wail on at the track, the magic spinning triangles are hard to beat. My vote goes to the 2nd gen RX-7. I like the looks more and you don't have to swap in a whole bunch of stuff like you would have to on the 1st gen.

Alfa Milano fits all but the mileage requirement (they get more like 24). Porsche 944 would be worth looking at too.

mr2 spyders are around for that $ if you are patient. My wife's has been a peach.

Good suggestions! I've always been curious about the MR2 spyders, but have never really had the opportunity to drive one...

Although I'm somewhat shocked that I haven't heard more "the answer is always Miata" or "holy E36 M3". :)

Of that list, I would be all over an EG hatch with a B18C1 swap. But I've been thinking about one as a track toy for awhile.

E30 = God's Charriot! Had to sell it a few months ago (No Airbag for Son) Right now, I'm working on an AW11 Mr2 for those same reasons you stated above.

Good Luck!

roninsoldier83 wrote: Good suggestions! I've always been curious about the MR2 spyders, but have never really had the opportunity to drive one... Although I'm somewhat shocked that I haven't heard more "the answer is always Miata" or "holy E36 M3". :)

If you've been lurking here long enough, we don't have to tell you the answer is always Miata. Duh. And in this case, it is. Though MR2s of any generation would be worth a look too. If you want fuel mileage, that would cross the RX7 off your list.

Even though they are both fwd, I would recommend either a Focus hatch or Zx2. Focus hatch has a ton of aftermarket, decent fuel mileage and within budget. Also, it might be a dark horse but the Zx2 is fun to drive, lightweight, can be made to handle with some tweaks, good fuel mileage and most of the time dirt cheap to find.

Klayfish wrote:

roninsoldier83 wrote: Good suggestions! I've always been curious about the MR2 spyders, but have never really had the opportunity to drive one... Although I'm somewhat shocked that I haven't heard more "the answer is always Miata" or "holy E36 M3". :)

If you've been lurking here long enough, we don't have to tell you the answer is always Miata. Duh. And in this case, it is. Though MR2s of any generation would be worth a look too. If you want fuel mileage, that would cross the RX7 off your list.

As much as I like pretty much all of the vehicles I listed (and some that I didn't), the Miata really does make the most sense. RWD, 50/50 weight distribution, double wishbones all around, huge aftermarket, dirt cheap parts (and cars), drop top (which can be subjective), fairly decent fuel economy, reliable and to boot, they're fairly basic/simplistic/straight-forward when it comes to wrenching on them. From a purely factual point of view, they're really tough to beat... and from an emotional standpoint, my old, slow 1.6L was still a riot to drive!

I've owned both a '90 Miata and a '91 MR2 turbo in the past... both were a blast to drive! Admittedly, the MR2 required more maintenance, had more issues and was considerably harder to work on; but it was also a real kick in the pants to pitch around! There really is nothing like driving a mid-engine car; especially when the rear end lets go suddenly and you have that gut-wrenching, hold-onto-the-wheel for dear life feeling. Although it's tough to find a turbo SW20 in good shape for under my budget around here... and I think if I had to pick between a naturally aspirated MR2 vs a Miata, I would likely take another Miata, for reasons listed above. I like the look of the last gen MR2 Spyders and think they would likely be a hoot to drive, but in the grand scheme of things, for the same money, I think a NB Miata makes a bit more sense. I should probably find one to take for a spin once the snow clears up...

The more I think about it though, I could always just save a few bucks and pickup another NA Miata, this time with a 1.8L and Torsen LSD (94-97). There is something to be said for the pop-up headlights! More money saved on initial purchase price, would mean more money to get the car back up to par and then some.

EG Civic. Massive aftermarket and fun to drive.

VW Sciricco. Currently autocrossing one this season. A lot of fun and gets tons of comments.

If you are willing to consider vintage, Fiat 124 Spider or Triumph TR7 or Fiat X1/9. Ok might be a bit different but different is fun and they are just awesome. Plus vintage equals big character and easy to work on.

Once two hunters went hunting in the forest. One of them suddenly fell down by accident. He showed the whites of his eyes and seemed to have ceased breathing. The other hunter soon took out his mobile phone to call the emergency center for help. The operator said calmly:"First, you should make sure that he is already dead." Then the operator heard a gunshot from the other end of the phone and next he heard the hunter asking:"What should I do next?"

http://www.coinsut.co.uk/ | http://www.fifa14coinstrader.com/

carofina wrote: Once two hunters went hunting in the forest. One of them suddenly fell down by accident. He showed the whites of his eyes and seemed to have ceased breathing. The other hunter soon took out his mobile phone to call the emergency center for help. The operator said calmly:"First, you should make sure that he is already dead." Then the operator heard a gunshot from the other end of the phone and next he heard the hunter asking:"What should I do next?" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.coinsut.co.uk/ | http://www.fifa14coinstrader.com/

FUNNIEST

CANOE

EVER!!!!

Honestly with a limited budget, and if cheap parts are a priority, I like the EG Civic idea.

I want to build another quite badly. I have two Miatas, and I don't know that I'd call the parts ridiculously cheap. Cheap parts are cheap. Good parts often aren't.

Cheap to maintain, not cheap to modify "correctly."

Swank Force One wrote: Honestly with a limited budget, and if cheap parts are a priority, I like the EG Civic idea. I want to build another quite badly. I have two Miatas, and I don't know that I'd call the parts ridiculously cheap. Cheap parts are cheap. Good parts often aren't. Cheap to maintain, not cheap to modify "correctly."

I hear what you're saying and would definitely keep the EG in mind.

However, I would note that "cheap" is a fairly subjective term and in my opinion, I would consider the NA/NB Miata to be a relatively "cheap" car to maintain and modify. I say that only having owned several cars that were considerably more expensive to modify as a general rule- e.g. my current VW Golf R, E90 BMW 335xi, Infiniti G37, Subaru WRX & STI, Nissan 350Z, ect. I also used to own an NA Miata and by comparison, parts pretty much always seemed cheaper for the Miata than they were/are for other cars I've owned listed above. Granted there will always be exceptions to the rule, but those are just my general findings.

I having a sneaking suspicion that the EG hatch would undercut the Miata when it comes to cost of maintenance and modification, but compared to a large number of popular, modern sporty cars, the Miata really isn't that bad at all.

Just my $.02

i'd look at aw11s, e30's (325is is what i'd look for specifically) and miatas see which you enjoy most and find the best example of that car to purchase.

I have too many 3rd cars now. (have an MGB and an e36 and a focus svt, sold an rx7 fb). looks like our 'lists' line up a bit - as I would assume most people on this board do.

I guess all I'm saying is make an honest list of your needs, and then look at how each car meets all of those needs. otherwise you end up like me with one car for each need, rather than one car that does most. and when you have that many cars, you suddenly have bigger space/upgrade/insurance/maintenance/$$ NEEDS.

I will just add that (as do-rift-o as it is) an SR swapped 240 is a KILLER car. One of my best buddies has one. Slight manual boost control, and it makes more power than my nearly stock 5.0l sbf. silky smooth motor and trans. its like a factory car - guess why. Incredible balance, and the 240 loses a touch of weight in the process. You should be able to bag a nice 240, grab an engine, make your harness, and then swap the motors in a weekend, all for 5k.

why make a harness?

http://www.wiringspecialties.com/

captdownshift wrote: why make a harness? http://www.wiringspecialties.com/

This.

Swank Force One wrote: Honestly with a limited budget, and if cheap parts are a priority, I like the EG Civic idea. I want to build another quite badly. I have two Miatas, and I don't know that I'd call the parts ridiculously cheap. Cheap parts are cheap. Good parts often aren't. Cheap to maintain, not cheap to modify "correctly."

Plus, if the mileage is a concern like you say in the original post, an EG is going to get wayyyy better mileage than the Miata.

rcutclif wrote: I have too many 3rd cars now. (have an MGB and an e36 and a focus svt, sold an rx7 fb). looks like our 'lists' line up a bit - as I would assume most people on this board do. I guess all I'm saying is make an honest list of your needs, and then look at how each car meets all of those needs. otherwise you end up like me with one car for each need, rather than one car that does most. and when you have that many cars, you suddenly have bigger space/upgrade/insurance/maintenance/$$ NEEDS. I will just add that (as do-rift-o as it is) an SR swapped 240 is a KILLER car. One of my best buddies has one. Slight manual boost control, and it makes more power than my nearly stock 5.0l sbf. silky smooth motor and trans. its like a factory car - guess why. Incredible balance, and the 240 loses a touch of weight in the process. You should be able to bag a nice 240, grab an engine, make your harness, and then swap the motors in a weekend, all for 5k.

Good advice... Although I was actually honest about my wants/needs in my initial post... and make no mistake, to me a 3rd car really is more of a want than a need. I want something I can substitute out with the VW for occasional commutes (keep miles off of the limited production, basically brand new Golf R), tinker with, take to the track and have fun with while staying within my pre-defined budget. My Golf R covers all of my "needs", whereas this car would simply cover those wants that I've defined. :)

So far, pretty much every car listed has covered what I'm looking for.... I would say that at this point the Miata is probably in a very narrow lead. Mostly because it does everything I want reliably and more importantly: they are relatively cheap and finding a clean example is very easy to do.

I've been scouring local for sale ads and finding a few of the other cars I think I would really enjoy in good shape for under my budget could be tough. I suppose I should have mentioned that I would like to avoid cars plagued by rust or cars that look like they've been to hell and back. I'm not asking for a cherry, I expect most of these vehicles to have a few dings and scratches; but I'm also not willing to drop cash on some teenager's bond-o project special that's half primered and rattling itself apart.

With that said, finding a clean SW20 MR2 turbo for under $5k that isn't completely trashed is proving to be a bit difficult.... Same for finding a clean E30 325is in my area that is rust free. AW11's seldom pop-up here, and again, clean, running, rust-free versions are tough to find. EG's pop-up from time to time as well, but many of them are fairly riced out or have 250k+ miles on them... Although I'm also considering a 3rd Gen MR2 Spyder if I can find one for under my budget... If I happen to find one of them that meets what I'm looking for, I'll likely scoop it up. Meanwhile, clean NA Miata's pop-up for under that price all the time. So my more recent debate has been: wait for a more interesting/unique vehicle vs just get another Miata.

After doing more and more research, I think I've scratched the E36 and MK2 GTI off of my list... So, at least I'm slowly narrowing it down!

I hear what you're saying about the 240SX and will keep my eyes open.. but again, in my area is seems to be incredibly difficult to find an unmolested 240SX (w/a manual). It's been a few years since I drove a 240SX; I should probably at least seek one out to try and take for a spin...

ProDarwin wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: Honestly with a limited budget, and if cheap parts are a priority, I like the EG Civic idea. I want to build another quite badly. I have two Miatas, and I don't know that I'd call the parts ridiculously cheap. Cheap parts are cheap. Good parts often aren't. Cheap to maintain, not cheap to modify "correctly."

Plus, if the mileage is a concern like you say in the original post, an EG is going to get wayyyy better mileage than the Miata.

What I actually said was:

roninsoldier83 wrote: -Better fuel economy than my AWD Golf R is a plus (I average about ~26-27mpg, with about 35% city & 65% highway driving), but not absolutely required.

Although, that's a valid argument.... was just curious, so I went onto fueleconomy.gov to compare. I selected a '94 Miata 5MT vs a '92 EG 1.6L 5MT. I estimated that I would be driving my project car approximately ~3000 miles a year (commuting 1-2 times a week, ect) with 35/65 city/highway driving.

Fueleconomy.gov informed me that the Miata would cost me about $450/year vs about $350/year for the EG. At that point, it's really only a savings of about $8.33/month for the EG. Which, to be honest, would not be enough to sway me one way or another. I've driven several Miata's but I don't think I've taken an EG for a spin in years. I'll keep an open mind, but since they're both in the same price range, I would likely just buy whichever one I thought would be more enjoyable to drive.

I suppose I should stop typing and just get out there and start driving.